Top Ten Greatest Boxers of All Time (The Ultimate List)
86The boxers on this all time list were chosen for their respective boxing records, boxing ability and talent, popularity, competition they faced, showmanship, and cultural significance in their era. The true greatest boxers of all time should represent a blend of all those attributes as you’ll find in the selections below.
1) JOE LOUIS
Record:
Won 66 Lost 3, 52 KO (66-3)
Known as “The Brown Bomber”, Joe Louis was an American Icon. He was clearly a shining star head and shoulders above the rest in his time. He couldn’t lose. Joe Louis only had 1 legitimate loss against Germany’s Max Schmeling which he later avenged in a sensational and historical 1st round KO. Joe Louis single handedly dismantled the Nazi image of invincibility and sent a direct and powerful check mate to Hitler. He gave his country a more than sensational day to remember.
Joe Louis became an American hero and symbol of national pride, and African-American pride. During this time of world war and racial inequality in America, Joe Louis was larger than boxing. Many of Joe Louis’ fights had unparalleled international, political, and social significance. All across the nation, droves of people were glued to their radios, and would explode into the streets upon many of his victories.
Because of the times, that type of fervor for boxing or for one athlete will most likely never be seen again. He was the first African-American boxer to be an American hero for whites, blacks and all Americans.
The rest of his only 3 losses came after his fall from grace. Once a proud symbol of patriotism, he was railroaded with taxes and severely in debt. This happened to him even despite donating his celebrity, money, morale, free exhibition matches and enlistment to the United States military in earlier years. Consequently, he was forced to keep fighting passed his retirement. With difficulty he still managed to win because of who he was, but suffered a pair of losses, including an embarrassing 8th round knock out right through the ropes by a fresh, up and coming Rocky Marciano. Regardless, the nation will never stop and give another boxer as much acclamation as Joe Lewis in 1938.
2) MUHAMMAD ALI
Record: 56wins 37 KO 5 losses (56-5)
In every aspect of the sport, Muhammad Ali was electrifying. Ali was an exciting, outspoken, undefeated boxing phenomenon and was by far boxing's best entertainer. Ali would often taunt his opponents, fake punches, and do his famous shuffles in the ring. He was also just as good a boxing promoter as he was a boxer; his loud mouth trash talk, and rhyming antics were truly larger than life and unprecedented in the sport.
Eventually Ali was stripped of the heavyweight title, banned from boxing, and faced imprisonment during his prime for refusing to fight in Vietnam because of his religious beliefs.
This was Ali’s most controversial moment. Ali’s rise to dominance in the boxing world came after the careers of African-American Champions Jack Johnson, and Joe Louis, and many African-Americans still held resentment for the Nation's treatment of them. Jack Johnson was always kept down and discredited. Joe Louis was a hero but still was betrayed and derailed with taxes. Muhammad Ali was a strong, confident, and new kind of African-American heavyweight champ encased in many of the controversies of the 60’s. The country tried to shame him as an unpatriotic draft evader for not fighting in Vietnam, but Ali had a very serious argument that reverberated all over the world. He voiced his disapproval of the reasons, or lack there of, why we were at war in the first place. Primarily he made note of his own people being denied rights, jailed and discriminated against. He noted with disgust that his people, even African-American women were being unfairly treated and oppressed, hunted by police, attacked by dogs and hosed down like animals in the street. He asked why he should be forced to fight for a country that hasn’t even given his people their rights and equality at home yet, all to help murder and oppress other people of color 10,000 miles away. One of his famous one liners was “No Vietcong ever called me N****r.”
Ali returned despite that huge 3 year set back, rebounded and still found a way to emerge on top again beating the best of the best.
Ali brought us the most famous fights in boxing and in one of the sports most action packed and competitive eras. He got the best of the exchanges with Joe Frasier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, and Leon Spinks----and he still found a way to do it when he was no longer invincible, after his prime. Most of his post-prime fights are all legendary and we know some of them by their nicknames like “The Thrilla in Manilla”, “The Rumble in the Jungle”.
Ali was already a living legend but catapulted in to all time boxing supremacy after dismantling a young, undefeated, and then unstoppable Big George Foreman. Ali was getting older and people finally thought of him as the underdog who's time was up. Foreman obliterated Frasier and became champion, and many thought Ali's humbling beating was next. However, the event was something magical. It was clear Ali was something much more than a boxer who permanently changed and inspired the entire world. Ali had the entire African town chanting in the streets "Ali, Kumbaye!", then somehow Ali knocked out Foreman with an unprecedented strategy and became Heavyweight Champion for an unheard of 3rd time. The seemingly unbeatable Foreman now had 1 loss, Muhammad Ali. No longer seen as arrogant, he was special, and he delivers. At this point, referring to him as "The Greatest" began to seem undisputed and justified.
Ali is credited for being the Heavyweight Champion of the world at the most competitive and difficult times to be Heavyweight Champ. He incredibly avenged every loss he ever had, usually coming up best of 3, except his very last 2 fights when Father Time would have his way, both losses to Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick. People started to notice his demeanor was changing. In his very last fight, the old lion could not be knocked out, he still went the distance but sadly didn’t have the ability to win anymore and retired at 39.
Muhammad Ali is still one of the most famous, and legendary men in the world. Whenever the greatest of all time are discussed, his name will be at the very top of the list for a very long time to come.
3) SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
Record: 173 wins, 109 (KO)19 losses, 6 draws, 2 no contests
Many consider Robinson to be the greatest pound for pound boxer of all time. Just boxing prowess considered, he might be. Robinson may be the best combination of boxing talent wrapped up in one man that the world has ever seen. He was a freakish enigma who somehow possessed awesome KO power in his punch, lightning fast speed, outstanding footwork and dexterity, and a solid chin. However, I list him 3rd when all variables in making a boxer “great” are considered. Ali and Louis had more international, political and social significance tied into them and their fights, and it immortalized them. Ali and Louis had more fights in which the entire world was a buzz and tuned in. Aside from that, Robinson is high above the rest.
In addition to his superior boxing ability, Robinson was also memorable for his good looks and flamboyance. He walked with large entourages, credited as the first athlete to have an entourage, he owned a famous night spot in Harlem, and he was known to be an excellent singer and dancer. In and outside the ring his presence was large.
Despite being a dance star in France and all the flash, Robinson was clearly the best warrior in the ring. Muhammad Ali and many of the best boxers around all concurred that he was tops.
Robinson won the middleweight championship a remarkable and unprecedented 5 times. Stylistically he had it all. He had speed, finesse, he dished out sound beatings and he could take beatings and rally back in most impressive fashion. He was never out, it was always a matter of how this boxing genius would figure his way out and turn the fight around, and he usually did.
There are many boxers who are always criticized for not being challenged enough by real competition to prove their worth---Robinson isn't one of them. Robinson has proven he was the best of the best with an exclamation point. Robinson defeated a host of Hall of Fame boxers like Jake LaMotta, Kid Gavilan, and Rocky Graziano. Even 16lbs lighter, Robinson beat the legendary “Raging Bull” Jake LaMotta 5 out of 6 fights. Having a check list of over 8 Hall of Fame boxers he eclipsed cements the fact that Robinson should always make the top 3 on any list.
4) JACK JOHNSON
Record: Won 73 (40 KO), Lost 13, Draw 9, NC, 2
Before Muhammad Ali or Roy Jones Jr., the biggest brash, bold trash talker around was the first African American Heavyweight Champ Jack Johnson. Being the first African American Heavyweight champ alone should secure him a spot on any top ten listing. For over a decade, nobody could beat him. He humiliated his opponents, holding them up and kept them from being knocked out so he could keep beating on them. Johnson made a mockery of most of his opponents and angered white America with his defiant “in your face” antics. The press abused and discredited him, but Johnson still couldn’t be beaten. For over a decade Johnson was the most famous and hated African American on the planet.
Jack Johnson is one of the most brilliant boxers of all time, employing an unusual style that made it extremely hard for his opponents to land a punch on him. Large but light on his feet, Johnson was extremely elusive, then battered away on his frustrated challengers.
During Johnson’s insurmountable reign, there was such an outcry for a great white hope that undefeated former champ James J. Jeffries stepped forth to dethrone him. Jeffries came back from retirement to prove “that a white man was better than a negro". Jeffries trained back into great shape pummeling his sparring partners. The fight was one of the most anticipated fights in boxing history billed as “The Fight of the Century”. Referring to Jeffries, this is where the famous moniker "Great White Hope" originated.
As the fight took place, it was obvious that Johnson was too much for Jeffries and overwhelmed him. Jeffries’ corner threw in the towel before the inevitable knock out could occur. The critics were silenced from this point on.
Johnson’s victory sparked numerous celebrations as well as race riots all over the country. Johnson eventually became a sole victim of jealousy and hatred. He was made an example of many times, received death threats, and was incarcerated because his wife was a white woman, for which he made travel plans with. A law meant to curb transporting women for the purpose of sexual immorality and fornication, which either way should never be a governments concern in a free country, was used to stick against Johnson.
Jack Johnson was broken down and eventually time caught up with him. He only won 2 of his last 9 fights because he attempted to keep fighting after his exile and imprisonment well into his 40’s.
Perhaps in a different time, Johnson's rise to greatness would be less stressful or obstructed by interruptions unrelated to the sport enabling him to reach his full potential. Regardless, when Jack Johnson was on top, he was in a different stratosphere and he made his point very loud and clear. Ring Magazine founder Nat Fliescher, considered Jack Johnson the greatest Heavyweight Champ of all time.
5) MIKE TYSON
Record: 50 wins, 6 losses, 44 KO, 2NC (50-6)
Let’s just be real; Tyson is snubbed, misplaced, or left out all together on almost all the lists I’ve seen. We’ve forgotten what he was and moved on. It’s outrageous, and unfair. There is absolutely no other boxer in boxing history that has amassed such a legendary fear factor and buzz in the sport than "Iron" Mike Tyson.
In the 80’s and early 90’s, Tyson was looked at as an unbeatable juggernaught who knocked out every contender of every size and caliber within the first few seconds or rounds of almost every fight. It became an entertaining query just how long the next unlucky sap would last.
Iron Mike Tyson, the once "Baddest Man on the Planet" was the youngest heavyweight champ ever. He snatched the title by way of humbling 2nd round (smacked down to the canvass…attempt to get up…10 second dazed chicken dance, than back down again…) knock out at 20 years old---a kid. He also was the first ever and youngest to hold the WBA, WBC and IBF titles AT THE SAME TIME. Say what you will, Mike Tyson is the only boxer that probably could’ve annihilated every other boxer on this list or any other list on a good day in his prime. You know it’s true. From 20-26 years old, no one could beat a focused, mentally healthy, and hungry Mike Tyson.
Tyson was absorbed into the forefront of Pop culture. From the very popular Nintendo Game "Mike Tyson's Punch Out", to his cartoons and comic books in Asia, to Will Smith's "I Think I Could Beat Mike Tyson", the world gravitated to Tyson like an other worldly super hero. Either by knocking people out within seconds or in a very controversial loss later in his career, the fact remains that Mike Tyson was a sensational spark to the boxing world and deserves to be on this list. Years after his meteoric rise and fall, he remains one of the most talked about boxers of all time.
After the death of trainer and father figure Cus D’amoto, a 3 year imprisonment (that should never have happened---it was an obvious set up), a highly publicized fiasco of a failed marriage, fall outs with Don King who owed him lots of money, mismanagement, and an eventual loss of heart for the sport, his star and prominence eventually faded into a series of controversial or lackluster losses and performances. The era of Mike Tyson is still unprecedented and he remains a point of reference for every young sensation on the rise.
6) JACK DEMPSEY
Won 66 (KO 51), Lost 6 (KO 1) , drawn 9
Jack Dempsey is definitely one of the most popular American boxers in history. He is known for setting the highest attendance and purse records and had the very first million dollar fight ever. Jack Dempsey was worth it, he was known for being the most savagely brutal and entertaining boxers of all time. Missing teeth, broken jaws and swollen eyes were all things one would expect from a Dempsey fight. Dempsey was described as a “superhuman wild man.”
Jack Dempsey is one of those old school genuine tough guys who used to fight in saloons for money. He reigned as heavyweight champion for 7 years, 7 years in which he severely punished his opposition trying to dethrone him.
Eventually Dempsey lost his title to Gene Tunney which was the highest grossing fight in boxing history for a long time. He lost a close rematch a year later as well.
Dempsey retired and eventually opened a successful restaurant named after himself in NYC. He also has a NYC street named after him in his honor and appeared on a US stamp. The boxing world has never forgot Dempsey for his ferocity in the ring and his dominance of the Heavyweight division in his time.
7) JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ
Record: Won 107 Lost 6, 2 draws, 80 KO
His record speaks for itself. Chavez is a Mexican legend who has gone over ten years straight without a loss. He was known as a tough as nails fighter who would always bring a great fight to the table. Chavez has earned himself the uncontested distinction of being recognized as "Mexico's Greatest Fighter".
Chavez is a 6 time champion in 3 different divisions. He also amassed a career record of 88-0 before his first loss to Frankie Randall that he later avenged twice, the 2nd time being the most convincing. Before that he had a draw with Pernell Whitaker that many felt he lost.
Chavez could take punishment all night long. Regardless, he would give punishment all night long. In order to beat Chavez a challenger would expect to go the distance, and expect to feel pain.
Chavez has beaten Roger Mayweather, Hector Camacho, Sammy Fuentes and many other great fighters through the years. Even before his retirement he was already seen as a Mexican legend who garnered respect and admiration. Chavez was always a huge boxing draw that packed stadiums and was internationally famous star in the sport.
Chavez's name is still currently resounding in the sport through his son and name sake, Julio Chavez, Jr.
8) ROCKY MARCIANO
Won 49 Lost 0, 43 KO (UNDEFEATED)
Rocky Marciano is one of the hardest punchers ever who’s biggest claim to fame is being the only undefeated Heavyweight champion. Marciano wasn’t that smooth as far as finesse is concerned, but he made up for it by punishing his opponents with power.
There’s been a back and forth Marciano debate for decades. Some people call him the greatest. However, Marciano is never ranked high amongst the greatest by boxing analyst despite being undefeated. You’ll need to look no where else to understand why. His less than stellar rankings are primarily because the competition he faced wasn’t as strong as many of the other champions like Ali or Robinson. Ali and Robinson beat many other all time great Hall of Famers you might find on similar lists, and while these fighters were in their prime. Simply being undefeated can be easily nullified. Many of the boxing greats were also once undefeated boxers for long periods of time. Willie Pep was once 61-0. Sugar Ray Robinson was 85-0 as an amateur and once 40-0 as a pro. It’s only when these warriors fought other legends, took losses, and reasserted their dominance did people learn how good they were and earned their places in boxing history. Most of the biggest names Marciano fought were passed their prime and weren’t great litmus tests. Marciano took the Heavyweight title from a 38 year old Jersey Joe Walcott. He also famously knocked Joe Louis out of the ring, but Louis was obviously not the same Louis, old, weathered and forced to keep fighting because of debt. Robinson had Jake LaMotta and beat him. Ali had Frasier and Foreman and beat them. Unfortunately and to no fault of his own, Marciano won all his fights and never had a fresh legendary nemesis to prove his worth with an exclamation point.
Regardless, Marciano will always be remembered for his ferocity and no losses. He was a class act who never took more credit than he deserved. Being the only undefeated Heavyweight champion of all time will keep him relevant in boxing debates and rankings for a very long time.
9) HENRY ARMSTRONG JR.
150 wins, (100 KO) 21 losses and 9 draws
Henry Armstrong was the first and only boxer to hold 3 world championship division titles at the same time. He would’ve won a fourth, something that no one has come close to doing ever, but fell short due to a controversial draw against Ceferino Garcia. Many thought he should’ve won. Regardless, his greatest achievement is defending the welter weight title more times than anyone else in boxing history.
He started his professional career on the losing end, but then began several stunning, long winning streaks. Many times in his career, Armstrong answered a loss with over 10 consecutive victories. One of his hottest streaks was 27 wins in a row, all of those 27 wins by way of knock out. Henry Armstrong’s 27 knock out win streak is viewed by many as the best winning streak ever in boxing. No one does that anymore. Mayweather and Pacquiao are beasts in the game at the moment, but they could never boast of that kind of a streak while fighting the sports best.
Ring Magazine voted Armstrong 2nd in the greatest fighters of the last 80 years list in 2007. One may find variations on his record because alot of the older boxers fought so much and under different names that it's hard for boxing historians to tell. Regardless, Armstrong's win streak under his own name is something that isn't hard to credit and won't be duplicated anytime soon.
10) WILLIE PEP
Record: won 229 (KO 65), lost 11, drawn 1
Willie Pep is an Italian-American boxer who fought for 26 years with a total of 229 wins out of 241 fights, perhaps the most impressive record in boxing.
Pep was the World Featherweight Champion with an astounding record of 61-0 before finally losing to another World Champion and fellow future Hall of Famer, Sammy Angott by decision in 1943. Pep bounced back and won 5 fights for the rest of that year. He did it again for the entire year of 1944, winning all 16 fights he fought in.
Pep continued his career with a staggering amount of victories at a championship level cementing the fact that he’s one of the best of all time. He won 73 fights in row which set an amazing boxing record.
Willie Pep was an asset to the sport and his weight class. The middle and heavy weight classes made the most money and attendance. Pep changed that expectation eventually fighting before packed arenas.
Setting boxing records from the start of his career until the end, William Pep is definitely one of the greatest pugilists of the century.
Who is the pound for pound best of this era?
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Thank you once again you! I'm a huge boxing fan and I follow it closely. Greatness isn't something you can buy in a can or work on. For example, Larry Holmes is one of the most accomplished Heavyweights out there, but he rose in the shadow of Ali and those timeless fights----and guys like Frasier and George Foreman just have a stronger and more memorable glow of greatness that shines way after their times. Nowadays everyone's yawning at the Klitchkos. I'm sure you might not know who I'm yapping about so I'll stop here lol. Thanks again though!
you left out Ross Scott, he is the former world champion.
And so I have fortunerep lol. My apologies. It must feel really awesome to have a relative do so well and compete at the level he did. As an ex-athlete myself, I know first hand that it was no walk in the park and to be a champion is an extraordinary achievement. However, your uncle is multi-faceted and more of a martial arts expert for this list anyways. Maybe I'll make a list of martial arts or versatile fighters trained in various disciplines and keep him in mind. Take care!
Hi... :) so...I took a gander at your poll, and I'm not so sure how to feel about Manny Pacquiao, rumor is he might be drinking juice. How does that fly with you?
Hey Fuertelady, I never assume anything about anyone!!!! The media makes us do that. However, I will say that it doesn't look good. When a drug test is the only thing that stands in the way of 2 of the world's best fighting, and it's really just a question of who you favor bcz they're both the only 2 candidates for the best, it looks really bad.
Freddie Roach and the camp are being suspicious and selfish regarding the issue. The fans NEED this fight. Every other fight each of them take is a teaser and staller. The rumors of who's the best need to be put to rest in a face off. It's about the fans, not their pride and ideal terms. If you're clean take the test and fight.
Back in the 70's when boxing was at a peak, Ali, Frasier and a host of other boxers of the time talked a lot of junk, but they taped up and went at it. We're stuck in an era of whining divas who turn down fights at the drop of a dime---literally. Nowadays each camp complains incessantly about money and terms---and having a highly anticipated fight not happen at all is totally fine and acceptable to them if they don't agree. It's a pro sport; There should be a comittee of sorts to enforce the fight and terms instead of having the 2 pound for pound best in the world stand there sticking their tongues out at each other refusing to fight.
They need to get with it and realize if they DON'T fight, it would be the one of the greatest tragedies in boxing. Negotiations are like a card game. When an opponent has a good hand, you don't say "I don't wanna play anymore" and run. The payout is extremely agreeable and its just about the test. He probably shoud just take it. If not, he's looking a lil' shady
good list man
Thanks mog5020. Put a lot of deliberation into it and I'm glad you appreciate it
HI... IM THE OF ALL TIME.. IM POOH
Your hub brought back memories of when I was a kid listening to the Gilette Friday Night Fights. I remember listening to a Joe Louis--Billy Conn fight in the 1940s. And a bunch of Sugar Ray fights. One fighter you didn't mention who I remember is Beau Jack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beau_Jack
More recently I watched the "Hitman," Thomas Hearns train at a ski resort in Northern Michigan. What a physical specimen he was.
Hey Ralph, Beau Jack was another great Hall of famer, but as in all lists, not everyone fits. I was tempted to make a top 15-or 20 for that reason. Very hard to narrow the field down with many great standouts. As for Hearns, he was a physical freak a nature for his weight class, tall, lanky, strong and powerful. Definitely an awesome fighter as well.
Great Hub. I learnt some new names too. (that should come in handy for any quiz)
I like Tyson and Ali. It's a pity about Tysons reputation - I personally think, there are underlying issues - otherwise, he sure delivers the goods. Thanks for sharing.
Looking forward to the Top women boxers. :)
Hey Lady_E. I'm a Tyson fan as well. We didn't realize how very young and vunerable he was. He was so unprotected and mismanaged. He was just a dollar sign to people after a while and handlers screwed him over, threw him in fights way too early etc etc. He lost the will to keep fighting and its a shame. Glad you like the Hub!
I'll keep the woman boxers list in mind, I already have a top 3 in my mind so maybe.
See you around the site!
lool the best hub i have ever read i especially liked the little history lesson on jack johnson i heard his name many times before but i didn't know his history
thanks i really enjoyed reading this hub
i really need to take writing lesson from you lol
I really appreciate that scorpion123. That's a very flattering comment. Always glad to hear approval, spent a while on it lol.
Maybe we'll be talking very soon on the site on a variety of topics.
Take care!
VERY NICE HUBS Dru cant wait to see more :D
Thanks alot twisterdude1009. I'll try to keep them coming and I'll definitely be checking yours out as well. Glad you like them!
top 10 pound for pond boxers
10.celestino cabbalerro
9.vic darchinyan
8.nonito donaire
7.miguel cotto
6.israel vasquez
5.bernard hopkins
4.juan manuel marquez
3rd.shane mosely (champion)
2nd.floyd mayweather jr (current champion)
1st.manny pacquiao (super champion) congratulations
Where is my favorite boxer Manny Pacquiao? Manny should be on the top Ten Greatest Boxers of All Time now-Mac from Singapore
Marciano, Chavez & Tyson were great, but no way do they belong on a top 10 GOAT list. Laughable to say the least.
Hey there dcdcdc, thanks for stopping by. My list is strong enough to send your comment right back at you. Everyone has their opinions as to who the very best were and lists vary. However, my list explains exactly why each were chosen and why they belong there:
"The boxers on this all time list were chosen for their respective boxing records, boxing ability and talent, popularity, competition they faced, showmanship, and cultural significance in their era. The true greatest boxers of all time should represent a blend of all those attributes as you’ll find in the selections below."
Those are 3 fighters you mentioned on my list who are still one of the greatest boxers, have impressiver records, as well as the most popular and culturally significant. They'll be discussed, talked about and debated over way beyond the eras of whoever you may esteem over them.
Say what you will, Marciano is undefeated. He's the only undefeated heavyweight fighter, and the only white undefeated heavyweight champ. He'll be remembered and people will hold him in high regard for a while.
Tyson owned his era. In his prime, he knocked out professional heavyweights as a 20 year old kid like he was from Krypton. Love him or hate him, It'll be a while before anyone matches the impact and spark he gave boxing. He's also the only and youngest to unify the belts. When was the last time someone in the heavyweight division was THE number 1 best recognized and undisputed by the world? Tyson is still referred to constantly and he's not going away.
Chavez has been on the winning end of things for so long, its more than impressive and it was very difficult for him to duck fighting the best of the best. He was winning fights with the top ranked fighters in the world before I was born. In Mexico he's revered more and for more years than Pacquiao in the Philipines. Try convincing them he shouldn't be mentioned. He's as living legend.
You agree they were all great, factor in the fact that their fame, popularity, and cultural significance orbits them way out front for many years to come, then you'll have to agree my selection of them is the furthest thing from "laughable".
Whoa Manny is not on the list he should've been there his achievements could overwhelm most of the boxers listed there hehehe. A great list but Manny deserves to be in the list too. Its the quality of wins that counts not the most number of wins sorry Buddy you have a great list but this will disappoint many boxing pundits and aficionado especially Manny is not around... and mike Tyson is there the ear biter hayz...
Thanks for stopping about MAC and GENERALHOWITZER. You had the same concern so I'll respond to you both. There's no doubt Pacquiao is an awesome champion worthy of acclaim, of whom I'm also a fan. However, as for as being ranked a GOAT he has one last hurdle: Floyd Mayweather.
Let's be perfectly clear about this. Pacquiao is "the people's champ". Popular opinion esteems him the best pound for pound fighter, even better than Floyd. However, according to facts and most boxing experts, he's still a notch under him. Floyd fought just about everyone Pacquiao has fought and outclassed them. No one has beaten Floyd. With a few losses and very close fights in his history, what Pacquiao is doing now, Floyd has been doing for years already. It's like an Ali, Frasier thing at the point. Them not fighting would be equivalent to Ali and Frasier or Sugar Ray and Hearns avoiding each other and never fighting. The 2 of them need to bang it out and settle this. If Pacquiao conquers Mayweather, and I mean beat him convincingly, you have no argument from me that he should be ranked one of the best of all time. However, you can't call someone the greatest of all time above everyone else in the same era that a 3 division champion has dismantled the very same cast and crew, AND unlike Pacquiao, has a FLAWLESS record. It wouldn't be fair, and it wouldn't be correct. For his legitimacy and legacy, Pacquiao needs to fight Floyd, not the other way around. It's not that I don't like Manny because I really do, but I don't know of any "greatest of all time" boxer that didnt fight his most obvious and greatest threat in his era that the fans want/need to see.
Peoples devotion and loyalty for an athlete can overide the facts many times. Including the word of many analysts, I believe I'm right about this one guys and I call it as I see it.
Thanks for including my favorite boxer-Muhammad Ali.
Its so ironic really man, Tyson is there but the man that beats him who is actually smaller than him who is Evander Holyfield is not there nyahahaha, the man whose ear was beaten my Mike himself. In Boxing honor is at stake too, not pure records so as to speak. Manny has great heart and known to be pure gentleman on and off the ring. By the way Manny is the reigning pound for pound king and the current holder of seven world titles in seven different divisions.
Mike bites the ear of Evander hehehe a showcase of not going away hehehe...
But still as I said earlier, you have a great list minus Tyson and Pacquiao and Holyfield should've been. But its your freewill and you are entitled to your own opinion though.
Great list, nice to see Mike Tyson up there, I remember when he used to fight and boy could that guy fight..lol
If you're looking at what the fighters represented at the time what about Foreman????? He was a pretty awesome fighter for the time oh and I agree with one of the posts above about including Mayweather, I reckon he could and potentially be on any future lists!
Great hub
Zaheer
I thought the list was well balanced. For the guy who thinks Chavez being on the list is laughable - You really don't have respect for boxing. Chavez won 88 fights with out a loss. His losses came at the end of his career when he was already to old to be fighting. How about the fact that in 13+ years he was never put on the canvas- Now if that doesn't show a strong chin or suburb defense, then I don't know what does. Over 100 fights in his career! with 6 losses coming at the end of his career, when he was already an old man. Never backed down from any fight and if he fought any of Manny P. opponents during his prime he would have destroyed them- He would have beat Manny too- Chavez was know for taking punches and pounding his opponents for 12hrs, relentlessly!
No need to thank me Montecristo. Ali was a force of nature. Truly one of a kind in all aspects.
Hey generalhowitzer. First of all, Holyfield towered over and outweighed Tyson. Tyson is only 5’11” and was about 216, the smaller man in most of his fights so I’m not sure what you meant there.
2nd of all, Tyson broke the most boxing records including the fastest knockouts, being the youngest heavyweight champ EVER, the first and youngest to unify the belts and the list goes on. He knocked out legends who’ve never been knocked out before like Larry Holmes. Tyson is relevant to the sport, historical and record breaking whether you like him or not.
As far as popularity and impact, Tyson had his own video game, his own comic book and cartoons in Asia, was featured in various rap songs and videos for over 15 years, and he’s still being beseeched to star in movies as himself all over the world, including our very own “Hangover”. You keep mentioning his ear biting. Imagine if all great men were judged and ranked according to their singular worst moment. Tyson doesn’t need any validation my friend. Just leave the man alone, he belongs on the list. Holyfield is another great champion and a warrior, but he’s not a Mike Tyson and fought Tyson when it was already over. Tyson was already broken and was just collecting checks in the late 90’s. Holyfield I definitely noteworthy and he won the title the most times than any fighter, but is not a top ten lister.
As for Manny, love him too but he’s not done. Re-read the last 2 guys on the list and you’ll see what I mean. He’s winning a lot now but so what? It’s been done before. We know he’s great but his story is not yet complete. I don’t need to see him fight anymore wannabe contenders that we already know he’ll beat. I need him to step up to Mayweather. If he wins, or even if it’s just a great fight, he’d definitely deserve to be on a top ten list, especially because of his popularity. No one seems to like Mayweather but I have to say, he just outmaneuvered Manny yet again by choosing to fight Shane Mosely. If Mayweather beats Mosely----that’s huge. Mosely isn’t another wannabe contender. He’s another multi-division champ and the best fighter either of them have fought. If Mayweather wins, Pacquiao is back in the position of needing to prove himself to Mayweather. Then they will HAVE to fight or history will never give either of them supremacy.
Thanks for the support nettech and Michael. No one has to explain Chavez. You also make a good point Michael. Pacquiao had his hands very full with Marchez, another great Mexican fighter, but Marchez is no Chavez. Chavez might've beaten Pacquiao. Pacquiao's speed and power would never drop or stun Chavez. Chavez would hurt him alot worse then Marchez or Eric Morales---especially since Pacquiao wouldn't be able to knock him out.
As for Foreman nettech, I agree, with you totally man. I just don't have him in a top ten, but maybe in a top 15. I would definitely put him in a top 15 mainly because he was a knockout king in his prime, and then he amazingly came back and won the heavyweight title again at a fat 47----by knockout. Amazing.
Thanks again for stopping by guys.
How can you not have Marciano as best of all time, he was never beat, you have Tyson above the best of all time, your a moron, you obviously dont know your boxing, i could understand if you had Ali as first, but Marciano would have beaten anyone.Get a job you dummy.
Hey MORTS. thanks for stopping by. You have a trait consistent with most idiots that intelligent people are forced to contend with: They’re always hopelessly convinced they're right and the next guy is the idiot. And usually on these blog sites, they're almost always unnecessarily very rude and angry.
Now to answer your question, I don't have Marciano as the greatest of all time because is he isn't. Nor is he close to being the greatest of all time. Most intelligent people and boxing experts already know this. Some need it to be explained so here goes.
Most boxing greats like Ali, Frasier, Foreman, Roy Jones etc etc etc all won Golden Gloves or Olympic medals, and many times both. Ali and Foreman were gold medalist. Then they came up through the ranks battling the best of the best and asserted their dominance professionally. Most of these guys have very notable adversaries. Ie Ali fought Frasier, Foreman, Spinx and Norton and beat all of them. That’s greatness.
Now Marciano never made it on the US Olympic team. He also lost the Golden Gloves and got outclassed by a guy with much more boxing finesse. Then professionally he fought mostly old guys or unknown guys from his hometown. 80% of his fights were unknown New England fighters all in the Boston area. I respect Marciano and he is one of the best punchers in boxing. He is worth noting and he is undefeated. But your argument is very old and has been conceded already. No, he is nowhere near being the greatest of all time. That’s laughable.
If you want to insult someone, it’s not very nice buy hey, do what you feel. I’m not mad atchya. For all I know you might even be a cool guy afterall. But next time do a little research to know what your talking about, be able to support your opinion and OWN calling someone dumb. I can fight everyone on my block and be an undefeated fighter too. The Rocky Marciano should be the greatest of all time because he was undefeated thing is so passé. Read up man.
Nice list although I suprised to see Tyson so high. Highly over-rated. Once he was found to have no heart he was steam rollered!
Hey phoenixgbr. I appreciate that. About Tyson though, I have him high because don't forget the legend/popularity factor which was some of the criteria used in selecting these guys. Same goes for Marciano. In all fairness, in the 80's Tyson had some of the most awesome knockouts and Tyson WAS boxing. Everyone had their jaws open and was about ready to hand him the GOAT crown.
You're right though, his heart and focus was different and very dissappointing in the 90's. I think he was on route to being the best ever. But i knew he was a very distracted and troubled fighter. Then sadly, the loser street kid from Brooklyn emerged again. He was drinking, doing drugs and running around with women more than he was training for fights after a while. He was still able to bang through most of the field, but there was no way he was going to beat champions like Holyfield and Lennox Lewis as a lost broken man.
He also had no one around him anymore that he could trust. He was a dollar sign to his handlers and they did things rushed and never in his best interest. Still fresh out of jail they began planning a battle with Lennix Lewis. I believed in Tyson but I knew that was a horrible mistake and way to soon. Jail took him out of training physicfally and psychologically. Believe me, there were many undisclosed issues and things he dealt during his jail stint. Tyson needed more time, therapy, and a new and supportive team like what he had in Cus D'amato and what Pacquiao has in Freddie Roach. Freddie Roach, or Emmanuel Stewart would NEVER their fighter into the ring without knowing if he was mentally ready. Roach and Sewart wouldve definitely known Tyson wasn't ready or healthy and called off the fight. It's sad and unfortunate.
In a nutshell, yeah he fizzled out, but he still is the youngest heavyweight champ ever, he still is the first and youngest to hold all ALL the belts at the same time, he still has many of the quickest KO's, he still broke several boxing records, he still is one the most famous men in the world etc etc etc. He deserves his spot.
Thanks again for stopping by and supporting most of the list.
See there they go there they go thats they one thaats they one right there. how come everytime i talk about joe louis a white man gotta pull rocky marciana out the ass. i tell u once and for all rocky marciana was good but compared to joe louis marciana aint s!@#....he beat joe louises ass.....dats right he did get his ass whooped.... joe louis was 75 years old when he fought rocky marciana.... i dont know how old he was but he shole got his ass whooped.....joe louis was 77 years old when they fought. he used to hang out with frank sinatra, frank sinatra came in here one day i say frank u hang out with joe louis how old is he....frank said joe louis is a hundred and 3 years old a hundred and 3 years old. awwwww man u aint neva met no frank sinatra! F!@! YOU!,F@#$ YOU, F@@#$ YOU.....whos next!..........
Evander Holyfield was simply the best, but is a great hub anyway. Thanks
you forgot Rocky Balboa!!! Not much of a boxing fan but enjoyed reading this xx
We all have our personal favs MAMBORD. And yes I agree, Holyfield is the man, just "the" man on my list. Can't believe he's actually climbing in the ring AGAIN. I'm a little concerned because of his heart and I think it's a Foreman thing----he might be in debt.
Anyway, glad you liked the list!
lol---wouldn't be surprised Mamelody. Thanks for stopping by!!
binotangson, I think it's time to shift the order of your list around a bit---It's all Floyd now.
and cool movie Migh t sharp. 80's classic
Your evaluations appear to be well researched and informative with 'logical well-reasoned conclusions'. Thanks. I mostly agree with you about Tyson (although we cannot definitely defend his innocence relating to his prison sentence). We do know its a sad story, evidencing that belts, rankings and wins doesn't necessarily equal 'hero' - God Bless
Hey Ken,
Thanks very much. I did put much thought and unbiased research and I'm glad you appreciated it.
As for Tyson's "rape" conviction---don't believe it for a second. Sometimes our justice system is an embarassing joke---with a good or bad lawyer it's like a board game. Regardless if you're guilty or innocent, the outcome depends on how good you play.
We're "supposed" to believe a man is innocent until proven guilty. Well, we don't. We sentence and convict when we think a guy probably did it. The only thing they did prove was that they (Desiree Washington) spoke on the phone, and she voluntarily went to his hotel room in the wee hours of the night--with MIKE TYSON. Was she going to play scrabble? Then...she suddenly cried rape afterward and filed a lawsuit for cash. In highschool,Washington also falsely accused a football player of rape prior to Mike Tyson. When the player and his mom spoke with her angry calling father and she was cornered about it she confessed she needed to cover herself because of her dad. For some baffling reason the courts found this inadmissable. Plus Tyson is one of the most brash, upfront people on the planet; believe or don't, Tyson doesn't lie. This case was never proven and he should not have been jailed. When the justice system seems to be run by chimpanzees with a fabrication chasing, lynch mob media to follow---always think it could be you.
Anyway, I can go on for days about this so I'll stop here. Thanks again and I'm really glad you liked the Hub and stopped by to let me know Ken.
We live in England and everyone in England knows that Ali was the best.......
p.s agree with you about rocky Marciano
Manny Pacquiao,the FIRST boxer in history to win seven world titles in seven different weight divisions,the ONLY boxer to win the lineal championship in four different weight classes and 2000-2009 Fighter of the Decade not on the Top Ten Greatest Boxers of All Time?He has the FIRST and the ONLY word..Can you tell us a boxer with the resume like Pacman?
PACMAN,he is the WBO World welterweight champion, The Ring light welterweight champion, and is rated by The Ring as the number 1 pound-for-pound best boxer of the world.
Pacquiao is also the former IBO World light welterweight champion, WBC World lightweight champion, WBC World super featherweight champion, IBF World super bantamweight champion, and WBC World flyweight champion. Furthermore, he is the former The Ring featherweight and super featherweight champion.
Pacquiao is the first boxer in history to win seven world titles in seven different weight divisions. In addition, he is the only boxer to win the lineal championship in four different weight classes. For his achievements, Pacquiao was named the 2000-2009 "Fighter of the Decade" by the Boxing Writers Association of America. Aside from being a boxer, Pacquiao has participated in politics, acting, and music recording.
Last May 10, 2010, Pacquiao was elected as Member of House of Representatives in the 15th Congress of the Philippines representing the province of Sarangani.He established the record of being the first active boxer to become a congressman in the Philippines
Hi Haduken and wikipedia boy, thanks for stopping by guys. I'm responding to you both because you both have the same sentiments.
You don't have to sell Manny to me---he's great. But do I know a fighter with a greater or comparable record? Yes. As expected---Mayweather obviously.
Yes, Manny won 7 titles in 7 different weight classes. Floyd won NINE in 5. it would have been ELEVEN titles because he waved the title shots for more money---ie-the Mosley fight wouldve been another title.
And 5 weight classes versus 7 only because Floyd's weight has been more consistent. In 2004 Mayweather was 140 and Pacquiao was 122-126 lbs. Now the're both fighting at 147. Manny (starting his career at 106 lbs) kept getting bigger and kept going up in weight class. Hmmm.....I'm just saying...I wont go there.
And most UPDATED lists (except Ring Mag I admit) have returned Floyd to number 1 where he belongs. check it out.
Most people don't like him for whatever reasons---arrogance, money flashing whatever---regardless Floyd is the best. I don't really care for him much and I have no reason to be partial to him, I just call things as they are.
You do make a point wikipediaboy with Pacquiao's political dealings. He's becoming a larger than life person in the Philipines. It does give him many points and makes him more legendary. However, the beloved boxer turned politian is nothing new, like 3 time champion Alexis Argüello becoming Mayor of a town in Nicaragua and others.
I will say this in writing---if Pacquiao fights and beats Mayweather convincingly, I think he should be on a GOAT list. Without a question.
But the reason Manny's not on the list is for 3 reasons:
1) I'm not putting current, active boxers on the list. Retired boxers only.
2)There are many fighters that came before Pacquiao that deserve consideration first like George Foreman, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran and others.
3) Mayweather is better, fought the same key opponents and is undefeated. If Floyd isn't on the list, Manny isn't either. Fair is fair.
And thank you for stopping by too jandee.
Yes, the Marciano thing is really lame in 2010. Most Rocky fans dropped it already lol.
As for Ali number 1, well...I love Ali but Robinson and Louis supporters can dispute that. These guys also had finesse and skill to boast of and clearly dominated the field in their day against other worthy, legendary opponents. I just feel Louis had a bigger moment in our American history---people actually pouring out into the streets. It was legendary and it meant more. Also, 80% of Louis wins were indisputable knockouts. He was huge, American pride and even hung around with the Rat Pack. Louis opened doors for Ali. Regardless, I support either candidate for #1 eitherway.
Take care!
Dru, did you have a brain cramp or did you forget to take your pills this morning? In your response to Mac and Generalhowitzer you stated "Floyd fought just about everyone Pacquiao has fought and outclassed them." Are you on CRACK or what??? They only have three common opponents - Hatton, Marquez and De La Hoya, and Pacman demolished Hatton and De La Hoya and beat Marquez once and had a draw against him. Mayweather couldn't even finish a washed up De La Hoya, a fight in which Oscar was winning the early rounds. Please do your research carefully before you post anything! Mayweather wants to protect his perfect record so bad that he dodged Mosley all these years and will only fight against those he knows darn well he has a huge chance of winning (for example, washed up Mosley and De La Hoya and a much smaller Marquez). Pacman has fought everyone, I mean everyone, who challenged him and he never shied away from it (Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Cotto, De La Hoya, Hatton, Diaz, etc.). And those fighters (save for De La Hoya)were in their prime. That to me is a true champion, fearless and courageous. He has dominated the lower weight divisions for years and will continue to do so until he retires. I cannot wait for Pacman to fight Mayweather so Manny can show the entire world that "Money" is worthless!
Hey there sublime 5001 and thanks for visiting.
Now, here we go----yet again. Ok. It’s not like I said Pacquiao was a bum---Mayweather is the better boxer and that’s all there is to it. Nothing to discuss. I don’t need to hear any more Pacquiao accolades said differently over and over and over because I already know them all. If you’d stop envisioning yourself as Pacquiao’s lover, calm down and be judicial about it, you might see the situation as it really is.
Pacquiao’s great, but he went to war with many people, like Marquez and Morales for example. He’s been knocked down, he’s been bashed in the face trading blows, and he also lost 3 times. Pacquiao’s also been knocked out. Mayweather never lost and hasn’t really gone to war with anyone. Sure, some people gave him more trouble than others, but it was always clear who the better man and boxer was. Mayweather’s too fast, too smart and too skilled. No one smacked his face up or knocked him down. He never gets wild and trades haymakers like most other boxers including Manny does. He’s just never lets it happen. He leaves every fight bruise-less, and efficiently does what he needs to for the win, no more no less. The person who Pacquiao had a DRAW with (Marquez), who you chose to bring up, Mayweather dropped him on the canvass with ease. Ironically you gave me that point of reference the same time you tried to compare both of their wins against Dela hoya when you were telling me who they both fought. The Marquez and Mosley domination was excellent and deflects your Dela Hoya comment. If Mayweather even needed to prove a point, he already did.
Mayweather’s smart and I know exactly what his management did. The Mayweather-Pacquiao 800 lbs gorilla was amidst, so he didn’t return to the ring to just fight anymore has-beens or journeyman like Dela Hoya, Hatton and---Clottey. He fought 2 boxers ranked within the top 5 best in the world, ranked just behind himself and Pacquiao actually, and he sent them both to boxing school. With that, Mayweather pulled the chips back toward his side of the table, and back on top. And I knew people would start that nonsense; Mosely washed up???? You know he wasn’t. The man just won the title by sensational KO. People just don’t understand how good Floyd is when he’s on and refuse to give him credit where it‘s due. Floyd‘s just better than the rest. Sometimes he shows it a little bit, other times he shows it a lot.
As a former athlete myself, its really important for me to call things correctly and not just swayed by favoritism influenced opinion. As far as skill, strategy and overall boxing talent---Mayweather is the best fighter in the sport right now and that’s all there is to it. Don’t try to take that away from him just because you have Pacquiao posters all over your wall. I’m not saying Mayweather’s a hero, or is more courageous or whatever else your celebrating in Pacquiao. I’m just saying that Floyd is the better boxer and he is.
I have to say, really great list man. It's one of the best I've seen. And as much as I want to disagree with you about Pacquiao, you're really dead on about everything lol. You really argue you points flawlessly. I still think Pacquioa would edge him out in a brawl, but as it stands now, no one can claim he's better than Mayweather. Fair is Fair.
Great list and keep blogging!
@druhepkins..yeah! mayweather is great too. but don't you forget that Mayweather duck Margarito and Cotto on their Prime.He cheated Marquez by weighing 146lbs instead of 144lbs agreement (Welterweight). And now asking too many demands like random blood testing. What a coward.
I believe that Pacman should be on the top 10 right now even if he is not already retired,but because it's your opinion you are entitled of it.oh! well, I'll just create my own website and I'll put my top 10 also.
What can you say about this? Mayweather Jr will retire for the second time in the middle of negotiations with Manny at the peak of his career?
Architechnical43, thanks very much for stopping by and thanks for agreeing. It's only the truth lol.
Haduken and Dondon- Mayweather retiring and all that is uncomfirmed rumors. Every boxer over 30 has retirement rumors circulating around. And he didn't cheat Marquez at all Haduken, he kicked his *** in way that it was obvious it didnt matter if he was an insignificant 2 lbs heavier or lighter. Marquez was outclassed, not knocked out with power. I mean 2 LBS? I think old school, like when Sugar Ray Robinson wiped the floor with Jake Lamotta 16lbs lighter. Mayweathers haters just keep trying to pull things out of air against a guy that like it or not---just keeps on winning. 2 lbs isn't an issue.
I don't think the blood test is "too many demands" either. Someone needs to step in and demand the terms they both agree on. They both need to stop the BS and fight. They both are to blame. A drug test shouldn't be a reason to stop this fight. Shame on BOTH of them if this fight doesn't happen.
A coward---I don't know. Does Mayweather scheme and posture himself for the biggest money fights with the least risks---absolutely. Call it what you want.
Thank you also for stopping by shieldwolf. Put Pacquioa on your list--it's your prerogative and I'd love to check yours out too.
However, I think the boxing world is stuck in the middle of Pac-Man fever. There are so many awesome fighters that have come and gone that I haven't put on here like Foreman, Holyfield, Sugar Ray Leonard, who probably deserve consideration more. Pacquioa's definetely one of my favs and he definietly belongs in a top 15-20, but I'm not going crazy for him like everyone else. He still should fight Mayweather and cement his spot.
Take sugar Ray Leonard for example. He was the olympic gold medalist and man of the hour in the 80's. He was incredible, and a showman. He then fought 2 of the baddest KO Kings in the sport (and future Hall of Famers), 2 people who EVERYONE thought would finally toss him a beating (Hearns and Hagler) and he ended up beating them too in legendary fights. Leonard fought Hall of Famers; Roberto Duran, Hagler, Hearns and won.
Pacquiao not fighting Mayweather leaves me a little dry for a GOAT. "I'm one of the top ten Greatest of all timers who DIDNT fight the number ranked UNDEFEATED champion, which is the fight everyone in my era wanted to see"- basically. It's like Ray Leonard never fighting Hearns or Hagler, or Ali not fighting Foreman or Frasier. It's a sign of the times and huge void in both their careers. I need to see that fight before I call Pacman a GOAT above all those other guys before he retires. Winning alot has been done before man---who you beat (or lose to in somecases) and how, is another case.
Quote from Sugar Ray Leonard: "The fight has to happen," Leonard said. "They both are letting people call them pound-for-pound. They both are considered pound-for-pound right now. They've got to fight each other to prove who's the best, pound-for-pound --"
And btw the way Haduken and Dondon--the coward thing could be tossed around too. Freddie Roach turned down Mosely for a fight TWICE--he ends up fighting journeyman Clottey.
Mike Tyson would have beat every name on this and any other list on his day. FACT. Yes he lost to douglas but was past his best and had not trained for 4 weeks yet still knocked him down for over 17 seconds. Jail was a set up so the boxing industry could once again get bums on seats, no one was interested in paying top dollar to see 30 seconds. But no one expected the rapid decline of Tyson and he faded to a shadow on himself. Tyson would have smashed Ali - what Tyson hit he destroyed - now Tyson vs Joe Louis would have been a fight. Tyson was most feared man ever to step in the ring - once cus died he fell into Kings hands and there my friends is the most devastating destroyer of boxers that has ever lived a double convicted loan shark murderer - DON KING
I think it unfair to include fighters in an all-time list that are still active, there is still much time for them to be proven human that includes both Mayweather and Pacquiao.
I would not have Mike Tyson even near the top of ANY all-time list. He has NEVER Beaten a good fighter in their prime. The name fighters on his conquest resume were all at least 36 years old. And the younger fighters he beat were mediocre at best. Because he was the top choice to non-boxing fans is not enough for a top ranking of just the heavyweights.
Another l disagree with is Dempsey.
the list is supposed to be all time, but it only covers the modern era. John L. sullivan should be there, as well as ancient Greek boxer Theogenes.
guys lets wait for the figth between Mayweather and Pacquiao...no matter who won on the fight they are the best fighter of all time...or greatest boxers of all time....
this two fighter are the 1 and 2 for me if who won hes the #1 and who lost take's #2....
And all of you guys who post the comments in here all of your fighters that you think are the best are one of the BEST....=)
because all the name that said i think they are all one of the Greatest Boxers of All Time.............
nope. muhmmad ali is number 1
For me Ray Robinson is the best boxer pound for pound.
For fights, record and influence I don't think Ali can be beaten
Any thoughts on the best fight you have ever seen?
Larry holmes was a better boxer than mike tyson
Sorry for the late reply all you guys. Thanks for stopping by.
farai brian mapuranga and ROLF, you can't stop Tyson's impact on the sport or his popularity. You're forgetting one of the components of being on this list. Tyson was the first and youngest heavyweight to unify the titles. Tyson would look like a god in the division now. And Tyson is still the most "googled" boxer. I made it clear popularity is an important element of being on my GOAT list. As far as popularity goes in addition to his accolades--he needs no introduction.
Dempsey was a boxing legend who had the first million dollar fight ever. Our generation is lacking in that department in the heavyweight division. You can't just forget and cut out guys who will always be one of a kind and the "Firsts". Guys like Dempsey are responsible for the way fights are billed to this day.
I partially agree, Holmes is a more accomplished boxer than a lot of them farai brian mapuranga, but he just doesn't have the legend or popularity.
And peter coinin---dude seriously? I'll meet you halfway; Sports like Track, Boxing, and Wrestling have been around for centuries. However we've only recently, and by recently I mean the last few hundred years, have efficiently organized our sports and recorded statistics accurately for future generations in order to acceptably rank and compare acclamation to present day fighters. For that reason, most lists you find don’t go earlier than 19th century. Boxing as the sport we know today, with the gloves, Ref, and the rounds system doesn’t go back to ancient Greece.
druhepkins --- > seems like u love Mayweather than PACMAN .. Pacman's fights were really action packed compaired to Mayweather's ... that's a great boxer .. Mayweather's fight were boring .. less action ...
Thanks for stopping by man. Now to respond to u, I don't love either of them. I don't know them. I'm just a former athlete that calls things as I see it, no favoritism.
And yes many Mayweather fights were uneventful, but ur completely missing the direct point in that: its because no one's in his league. He doesn't get hit or knocked down. He bobs, weaves and licks their faces up all night and easily wins on points and skill domination. Pacman however had to get his hands dirty many times. Quite a few fellas like Marquez have made Pacman eat glove and hit the canvass. And yes, they were exciting. It's the difference between boxing and brawling. Intellegence vs guts.Without realizing it, ur making a case for Mayweather and not Pacman.
I'm no cheerleader for Mayweather, based on what my eyes see, I just give him his due.
Hey Druhe, Great job, great writing, great information all equals a Great Hub! The time and effort you put in really shows.
I agree mostly with your list and respect your reasoning and choices. The only one I wouldn't have here is Tyson. But thats mostly because I think ones personal life has to be takin into consideration anytime we're talking GOAT list in any sport. And I'm not referring to personal as in what he does behind closed doors. But ( and I agree he was great and had the potential to be on top of this list) in my view he pretty much quit, quit on his career and even, quit somewhat on life. And I realize how much he overcame to get where he got and how young he was. But that makes it even more disappointing to me that after overcoming so much. It was almost like he woke up one day and decided not to overcome. And allbeit he may have had many reasons, dirty promoter, bad trainer and so on. We all know in the end reasons can just become excuses. And in boxing none of us want excuses or quitters.
I do however totally agree with you on the Mayweather point. And I don't even like his style, mouth or attitude at all but he does what he needs to win. And has against some of the best. In fact I will even go farther than you, I pretty much see their fight( if it happens) going about like the Mayweather Hatton fight. (No pac fans I'm not on crack)! I just see Floyd setting him up for a big counter shot. Floyd carries his power against everyone he's fought coming up weight.
I also agree with wondering about Pac juicing. I mean besides the fact he's never ducked anyone add in the millions that he would have made win or lose. And it just doesn't add up over a simple blood test. Not to mention how does someone his size hit so friggin hard. And it just leaves me???
Anyway glad I found you Druhe and I'll be back for more good work brother. Keep up the good Hubbing, And Grace and Mercy be with ya in all things!
I agree with :) --- but anyways, u got a point ... mayweather is unbeatable ... he is really skillful ...
Hey Druhe, this is more question than comment. But I had this thought back when I was watching the Pacman-Cotto fight. Around the time I figured out Cotto was overmatched against Pac and wondering where he (Cotto) would go from there. And this matchup came to mind Cotto-Hatton. I think these two would be a good matchup for each other. And ( unless Hatton retired and I didn't hear) I think this fight would be exciting and make sense for both of them at this point. Whatya think?
Also was you as dissapointed as me that they even made the Vasques-Marques 4 fight? I really think we've all missed some good fights these two could have had with some of the other talent in thier division. Sorry this is totally off the Hub subject, but it should make for more comments :)
Hey Robert, sorry for my delayed responses, I got new laptops with Windows 7 and I had extensive internet problems ever since.
Anyway, I think it's curtians for Hatton. He's done everything he could do for his legacy and he's done. The way he got knocked out by Pacman was a flash knock down and he was out---early too. That's a sure sign of it being over. His last few fights ended in his being knocked out. He'll never be number 1, or 2 or 3 or 4 and he's got nothing to shoot for either. Just like Jermaine Taylor, he's a great fighter but it's time to be done with your career. especailly for your health and safety.
As for Marquez, I'm not mad at that. It makes perfect sense. Marquez has nothing else to prove and nowhere to go. Think about it, he can't beat Mayweather and that's done. He had great fights with Pacquiao, they were close but he lost 3 times so there know demand for a 4th, he had his chances--that's done. I don't suggest he fight guys like Paul Williams, Willaims is huge and needs to stop training down to beat up the little guys and be the true middle weight that he is. Marquez is at the top of the chain and there are few options for him left. Makes sense to re-hype a fight with a fighter he has a history with that could be re-hyped succesfully.
you forget about Ippo Makonochi!
IPPO! IPPO!
Hey Druhepkins, not a bad list, but I must respectfully disagree. Reading your responses, it seems that you would be open for an honest debate without the need for name calling or calling someone out on their perceived lack of IQ! That being said, I really can't see putting Tyson anywhere near the top 10. If anything, I'd put him in the top three for wasted POTENTIAL. The mid eighties was a a down time for heavyweights. Coming from the heyday of the heavyweight division, the 70's, there wasn't really anyone to take note of. You had Michael Spinks as champ, and he got there on a disputed decision over an aging Larry Holmes. The money fights were all in the lighter divisions. Hagler, Duran, Leonard, (Any three of which could have made the list) Along came Tyson, and he added some excitement to the division. His early fights were HAND PICKED for his style, by the genius of Cus Amato. After Cus died, Tyson stopped developing as a fighter and relied on his reputation as an animal in the ring. Tyson built the reputation as a killer, but never really beat ANYONE until he encountered a terrified Spinks. He was exposed fairly early on by the journeyman Buster Douglas, and never regained the promise he once showed. I think he had the potential to be top 3 of all time, but when he lost his direction with the death of Cus it was all over. He wasn't ready for the fame and trappings that came with it and it killed his desire. seriously, look back on his record you'll see a list of nobodys. He lost to the only real talent he ever faced. (Usually by knockout) Incredible potential, and true spectacle for his time? Absolutely. Top 10 ever? Not a chance.
I look forward to your response!
Thanks for stopping by MWW, and sorry it took me so long to respond.
You’re absolutely right; I love a cordial debate with sound reasoning, without the unnecessary shenanigans and attacks. And yes you have a strong case against Tyson. I agree with you on many points, and I know he did punk out, but I’m sticking by him on the list---strongly. These are my reasons:
Did Mike Tyson give up on himself and turn his back on the sport? I think so. Could he have been much more?---of course. However, I don’t judge athletes by the dark sides or ends of their careers alone. I judge them by their overall legacy and achievements. I expect every boxer to fizzle out eventually, but everything that happened up to that point is extremely important. There’s only one Tyson.
Yes, every champ or popular world class fighter starts to pick a few over hyped handpicked journeymen to keep to the train rolling a bit more with little risk. I understand that, but it was what Tyson did to anyone who was anything short of one of the world’s best. People got knocked out so ferociously and so quickly it was stunning, bums or not. Tyson was so quick and so explosively powerful that almost any early shot to the head that snuck through was almost a guaranteed KO or an instant fight shifting advantage gainer. I never saw that before. Tyson owned the 80’s and 90’s and it can’t be taken away from him, discredited, or undone.
In addition and what seals it, and I keep repeating this point because it cannot be overlooked or ignored ever in this sport: Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champ ever and the first to unify all belts as the undisputed champ. The youngest champ before Tyson was Muhammed Ali. Nowadays, the heavyweight division which is traditionally the biggest draw, is still in limbo and no one does that anymore.
In retrospect, Tyson didn’t have the head to stay champ for long for many psychological and unfortunate circumstantial reasons that I understand and forgive because I understand people. I refuse to judge him. Freddie Roach cares about Pacquiao, and he protects him. I don’t think he was an awesome trainer but Angelo Dundee cared about Ali, regardless, Ali was also a lot older and smarter than Tyson was during his hugest fights and controversies. But Tyson was a tragedy, and he had no one after Cus died. After Cus, he had bad, greedy and shady people all around him that screwed him financially, and threw him in the ring unprepared---mentally all the time because Tyson meant CASH. None of his handlers really cared if he fought after he had his appendix removed. They just wanted him to fight. Tyson should’ve never fought Lewis when he did. His life was emotionally in shambles, he wasn’t in control of his finances, he was being medicated, he was still training back from the time off locked in jail in his prime and didn’t need to move up so quickly. He never should’ve fought Lewis or Holyfield when and how he did, and in the state that he was----and Cus would’ve never allowed it. His life, the public outbursts, the carousing and women, the fights with Don King and people taking advantage of him---It would’ve been painfully obvious to Cus something was wrong with Tyson and he shouldn’t be in the ring with the cream of the crop contenders in the world who both outweighed and towered over him, and who both were better trained, conditioned and mentally ready, all just to get a fat paycheck, and a tarnished record. Boxing and all that came with it betrayed Tyson, and subconsciously he checked out.
Anyway, in a nutshell after all I blabbered to you, no one was the knock out phenom that Tyson was and injected such a buzz in the sport in the last 30 years. He’s still one of boxings most popular, most referenced and most remembered. He’s not the Wheaties poster boy for the best life or doing everything right, but he deserves his spot.
Thanks for the response. You kind of made my point. He had the POTENTIAL to be one of the best, but never lived up to it. Whether it was him giving up, or falling victim to his demons is beside the point. What he DID do was bring people BACK to the heavyweight division for the spectacle. I give him ALL the credit for saving the heavyweight division, but to put him near the top ten is just not possible. As for owning the eighties, I'll agree with the fact that he owned the mid to late eighties, but again this was a time when the heavyweight division was basically devoid of talent, and any talent that WAS there, (Holyfield) he didn't fight. As for him owning the nineties, once he lost to Douglas he was pretty much finished, and that was in 1990! Who did be beat after that? Who beat him?
One measure of greatness HAS to be coming back from defeat. Louis did it with Schmeling, Ali did it with Frasier. Tyson can't come close to making that claim. The destruction of the aura of invincibility along with his mental decline puts him solidly in the category of "What If".
I love the fact that you can stand by your man, I simply MUST respectfully though strongly disagree.
how could you put someone as awful and dissrespectful to this sport as tyson
Hey MWW,
Once again, great argument here. but how did I prove your point? By repeating Tyson is the youngest Heavyweight of all time and the first and youngest to unify the belts and the only boxer to amass such a legendary fear factor in the sport? He won all 3, the WBA, WBC, and IBF titles simultaneously at 20 years old---and no one else in the sport has. Also, 12 of his first 19 fights were won by 1st round Knock Out--earning his nick name “Kid Dynamite.“ He was a teenager fighting men. No one’s done that either. Case closed. Love him or hate him, Tyson is one the top 5 most famous boxer of all time INTERNATIONALLY and the sports world still give him his props where it’s due. Let’s take a direct quote from his bio on wikipedia about earlier in his career: “He holds the Junior Olympic quickest knockout record with 8 seconds. In addition he won every bout at the Junior Olympic Games by knockout.” Sensational.
Sure Tyson crumbled, and it’s a shame he wasn’t more of a warrior to overcome the many obstacles that most other boxers didn’t have to deal, including the pressure of being a kid champion with everything to lose, but his place in the sport was already cemented.
The only thing you have proven is that yes, you have sound reasoning, and you have great points why he shouldn’t be on a Wheaties box, but we can agree to disagree.
You as well Sam. I understand the reasons for not respecting him, but at least respect the reasons why many still do.
Lol, You KNOW I can't let this go so....
I'm not even counting the train wreck of a life the man had. That has NOTHING to do with his accomplishments or lack there of (Case in point, look at OJ or any number of hall of famers)Respect for the man has nothing to due with respect for the fighter, and I won't let you write me off that easily! I'm looking at his skill as a boxer. He never even MADE the olympic team by the way. (Check out who he lost to in the qualifier) Is he one of the most FAMOUS boxers of all time? Given the time he came to prominence, I'd have to give you that one. As I stated earlier, the 80's were a time when the sport was dominated by lighter weight classes when Hagler, Hearns, Leonard and a host of others were electrifying the boxing world with some of the greatest match ups ever. In the 70's, heavyweights dominated. Ali Vs Frazier I II and III, Ali vs. Foreman, etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED him in his early days. He was a force to behold, no question, and had he continued to develop his SKILLS he may have been able to crack the top 10 HEAVYWEIGHTS. His defense was HORRIBLE. He had a LOT of problem with taller fighters, and if a fighter was able to put the pressure on him he wilted. He also had no chin. Of his 6 losses, 5 were by knockout. What other top ten fighter can you say that about? I've seen Tyson/Douglas several times, and it really exposes SO many problem areas for Tyson. Same thing with the first Tyson Holyfield fight.
If you wanted to name a list "Top 10 most influential boxers" he could arguably be put on the list for bringing life back to the heavyweight division. He came into being at the dawn of the "Modern" media age, and was one of the few bright spots in a dying division. On all the myriad levels of qualifications it takes to be considered truly GREAT in the sport, he just doesn't have it.
are you all forgetting Roberto Duran
Look the list is a good one. I think that there could have been some boxers on here who are not but 10 is 10 and you have to just make the decision and stand by it. But MWW you have to admit that Tyson is the best since Ali period. He has reaced iconic status, like it or not. Sounds to me like you don't like mike and don't want to give him his credit for being the outright best of his era. You talk about Tyson and the olympics but he was 17 at that point of his life. At 18 he was ready to go to the pros and set his goals on being the youngest to ever hold the heavyweight championship of the world, no small feat. Most heavyweight champs are late 20's early 30's; HE WAS 20 YEARS OLD!!! Name the class of fighters who did that. His accomplishments were unmatched by anyone of his time, even the fighters he lost to. You say the era was not great but he can't help when he was born; he was just so much better that people want to make excuses to not put him where he belongs, a top 5 heavyweight of all time. He ended with a record of 50-6 with 44 ko's and the best 1st round ko percentage in THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT!!! You only mention Holyfield, Lewis, Douglas because they beat Mike; that is the only reason. If they had never beat mike you would not even say thier names. That is how much respect mike has as a boxer. Mike k.o.ed more people then they even beat period in their careers. Mike did not even fight for 4 years of his prime, a time where he would have knocked out even more fighters and won even more fights. Even after being away from the sport, he still came back to win the title again. Yea mike has had setbacks and did some messed-up things but don't act like he was not great because if you do you are running away from the truth and you will be arguing for the rest of your life. And as a sidenote; Mike Tyson will be remembered far longer than almost any boxer of any weightclass ever to fight and that says a lot. He was already in the boxing hall of fame the night he became the champ. He will go down as an elite level boxer and because of his ferocious style stands in a class of his own.
A p4p list with Joe at number one, finally someone who sees through the Ali myth. would have put Sugar Ray at number 2 then Ali. Agree that Tyson belongs, you got him a little high though, and a surprise to see a list with Chavez on it. A good surprise, he defiantly deserves a mention. Pretty cool list, love reading different opinions on this subject.
The Ali 'myth?' He beat Foreman, Frazier and Liston, all three of them were better than anything that Louis beat! If we're going purely on ring exploits, then Louis would be top 25 but not 10. Harry Greb beat more hall of famers than any other figter in history, and has a realistic claim to top spot. What about Sam Langford, who beat a top 3 all-time Lightweight and went all the way up to beat a top 15 Heavyweight in Harry Wills?
Come on, guys! Tyson shouldn't be anywhere near the list. Beat the washed up ghost of Holmes, a Light-Heavyweight in Spinks and who else? The mighty Tucker? Bruno? Thomas? Dear oh dear...As for him 'owing his era', there are plenty of fighters who dominated much better divisions for much longer.
My top 10...
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
6. Roberto Duran
7. Sam Langford
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Benny Leonard
Near misses - Eder Jofre, Willie Pep, Archie Moore, Mickey Walker, Gene Tunney.
Thank you.
I've read a few lists and yours is the only one that makes sense.
Being British I'm a football fan (soccer) and like Tyson, Maradona, is often not regarded as the best footballer ever because he is not viewed as a nice person, whereas Pele is.
Many people are deluding themselves. Perhaps it's because they don't have a sporting background themselves. Sport is about winning, nothing else. It has evolved out of military training.
Anyone who knows anything about football knows that Maradona was the best. My point is that Tyson was the best. As you say at his best he would have beaten anyone. He was quick enough to match Ali and would have overpowered him, and other top fighters of a similar style. Even other top fighters that are more power based like Tyson himself would simply not have been quick enough for him. His speed strength combination was the greatest, largely because of his relatively modest size at his peak 5'11" and 15 and a half stone (217).
Surely the best boxer is not the one who was the best at his average (over his whole career), but the best at his best, like in athletics. That is the only way of thinking about the best ever that makes sense to me. Also, we can't look beyond the Heavyweights for the best ever. Most other sports do not have weight categories. I repeat, at his best, which you say was about 6 years worth (no flash in the pan), and I agree, he would have beaten anyone. End of story.
Jesus, no matter how hard you try you just can't get the message through to some of these thick-as-a-brick Tyson fan boys, who all think that boxing started in the eighties.
Tyson lost every single close fight he was in. Every time he faced a great Heavyweight anywhere near their prime, he got knocked out. He ducked Lennox Lewis for as long as he could, until he was broke and the fight became a financial imperative. He got his arse handed to him in his prime by Buster Douglas. An over-the-hill, 34 year old Holyfield, who was coming in off the back off losses to Bowe and Moorer and a retirement, slapped Tyson all over the place for 11 rounds, even though Tyson was the huge favourite.
And some clowns say that this man was the greatest fighter ever? What a joke.
Wow!!! You are an amazing writer. I dont care what anyone says these are the best fighters.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Goerge Foreman
5. Mike Tyson
6. Roy Jones J.r
7. Larry Holmes
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Joe Frazer
10.Joe Louis
What about Wilfredo Gomez 44-3-1-42
gr8 work...!!
Notice you've tended to choose the heavyweights. Where do fighters like Ray Leonard, Duran, Hagler and more recently Jones Jr rank on your list?
Chris88 you should stop with all of the nonsense hating on Tyson; he is an iconic figure. all you want to do is talk about the 6 times that he lost in his 20+ years of fighting. He is world known and respected by the best boxers to ever live. Bottom line, Tyson's accomplishments in boxing are greater than anyone's accomplishments who beat him. Matter of fact out of all of the accomplishments that any of the fighters who beat mike had, their greatest one was beating MIKE TYSON!!! if you could beat mike, you would be remembered for a long time. If a boxer beat lennox, evander, or any of these other boxers that you claim to be so legendary; it is no guarantee that you would be remembered for a long time or even at all. But beat mike and they gonna show it over and over for a long time. just as many people know buster as lennox and all buster had to do was beat mike. But do me a favor and just keep talking bout him cause MIKE TYSON will be remembered far longer than these other fighters you claim are so fantastic.
LB aka Laced Bombs, your post made me laugh. First of all, if you rate Tyson higher than Lewis and Holyfield (particularly Holyfield, given his additional Cruiserweight exploits) then you're obviously totally blind to what each respective fighter achieved.
Your a typical Tyson fan boy, you represent just about everything that is wrong with the sport today in the public eye. Tell me, what is your favourite Sonny Liston or Joe Louis performance? What do you make of Jim Jeffries' title defences against Corbett and Sharkey? Who is the greatest Lightweight, Duran or Benny Leonard? Oh hang on, you don't know who these guys are, otherwise you wouldn't be even suggesting that Tyson belongs in the highest echelons.
And that's my problem - you're one of these "I've seen Tyson's KO reels on YouTube, so I'm an expert!" types who ranks him as the greatest, without knowing ANYTHING about the people you're ranking him ahead of.
Also, you're comically implying that we should rank a fighter's greatness on how famous and well-known they are. Says it all really. If you bothered to learn about the sport's history you'd know that beating the washed up, half-retired Holmes, Tucker, Smith, Seldon, Biggs and so on doesn't make you one of the true greats. Tyson was a hype job who got found out when he couldn't bully an opponent - he lost EVERY close fight he was in. The way he ducked Lewis was plain shameful as well.
Tyson is a top 15 Heavyweight, but that's it. As for overall pound for pound standing, he wouldn't make a top 100.
great list as a mexican american i could complain about chavez not being ranked high enough, but i think you nailed it.that guy that called you a moron needs to learn a lot more about boxing.any way i had a question for you.a while back i read an article that said rocky marciano had indeed lost 1 fight as a professional.but reasons unknown never showed up on his record.did you ever hear anything like that?
Chavez not high enough? He's far too high as it is. Great fighter and I'm a massive fan, but he's not an all-time top 10 fighter. In fact, at the very best, he'd only just scrape in to a top 20 at the very bottom. He's between 20th and 25th for me. His record doesn't warrant him being above guys like Mickey Walker, Barney Ross, Ezzard Charles, Sandy Saddler or Tony Canzoneri, all of whom have been totally ignored on your list.
Hey Efran, thanks for stopping by my page. I want to show love to everyone and jump into these debates but it’s getting harder with all the music pages I have up. Thanks for the support though. Everyone has varying opinions, some with valid points, some with weak ones---you can never make EVERYONE happy but I agree and I think my list is solid, fair, and on point.
Anyway to answer your question, there is a rumor that he lost and it’s definitely possible. Fighters back in the day fought all the time, sometimes under different names and many fights got lost in the records, purposely left out, or unrecorded altogether. For example, with some of the old guys like Robinson , Henry, Pep, etc you’ll often find their records with slightly different statistic numbers because of that. With Marciano, again it’s possible but I don’t choose to believe or support anything I don’t know for a fact is true or that I can’t prove. Before death he stood by his 49-0 and that’s what I go by, case closed. People spend too much time pumping out stories they can’t prove---it’ll always be hearsay. Some say yes, some say no. He has lost as an amateur though. And claims that he was “protected” are not outlandish considering 85% of his fights were all New Englanders and the big names he fought were all pretty much past their time. Overhyped?---a little bit. However, he still is one of the hardest hitters in boxing. It’s sort of like Tyson, you can have your opinions but you can never count out a guy with one punch knockout power no matter who he’s in the ring with or how outclassed you think he is. Anyway and back to your question, he could’ve lost being outpointed in a match or 2, no scandal surprises me anymore, but we have to respect his record as is. Being undefeated doesn’t mean much to me. Even if he did lose it shouldn’t be a big deal; no matter how good you are someone could get your number. Look at the UFC---the better guy ends up losing pretty often. Losing and coming back makes you greater like Ali. His being undefeated is an achievement of sorts but I’d much rather have seen him go head to head with another legend in his prime in an epic match, win or lose. Unfortunately he doesn’t have that Ali/Frasier/Foreman, Leonard/Hearnes/Hagler epic battle of legends in his repertoire.
Thanks for coming by too Chris88. You mentioned a few very strong fighters but Chavez’s win percentage and legend factor out ranks those guys. You have to also consider the era they were in. Chavez is a 6 time world champion in 3 divisions. However, I wouldn’t lose my shirt over the guys you mentioned being in front of Chavez, I can see Barnes and Charles in front. We’re not talking over 10 spots behind either. If he is ever ranked behind them, he’d most likely be literally right behind them. Varying lists would have him in front as I did. But keep in mind a percentage of what was needed to break my list was popularity, legend, impact on the sport or whatever you want to call it. As a former athlete myself having left sports, I see now how important that is and how it’s a preordained attribute to be “special”, right along with skill and achievement. Chavez is a Mexican icon. People usually get at me for Tyson, Marciano and I would assume Chavez for being the weak links, but they were all great boxers who’s skill, impact, and legend brought them to the spotlight, and the list critics will always know who they are, and they will keep commenting about them for a looong time.
Hey Chris88, I am happy to see that my comment got so much of a rise out of you. I love it. And as far as you talking bout me and youtube clips of mike tyson; I watched Mike Tyson on TV HBO and showtime as a kid and know what he meant to the sport. Lennox and Holifield did not mean as much to the sport as Tyson and did not accomplish as much. You talking bout im a Tyson fan boy well u a Tyson HATER!!! Only reason you talking bout Holifield and Lennox to the extent that you do is cause they beat Tyson but holifield lost 10 times in the ring and never got 50 wins. Lennox never got the wins tyson did either or KOs even though he was bigger. Matter of fact seems like the whole heavyweight division got bigger when Mike came. Why dont you name some of the people who beat Lennox or Holifield as some of the greatest like bowe because if Bowe would have beaten Tyson, you would be yelling his name out too but to beat holifield is not enough to get mentioned as one of these greats but if you beat mike your cemented in history. Matter of fact to beat lennox is not a big enough accomplishment to be listed as one of your greats either. It is different when you beat Tyson because it was viewed as such a remarkable feat to beat such a great champion as Tyson. And now he a top 15 HW in your opinion. The more we talk, the farther mike rises on your list. Yea you know a little bout boxing but your hate for mike fogs your perception. All of the fighters studied mike and trained their hardest to beat him and were most excited when the 5 people that beat him in a 20 + year career did win. Youngest ever. He was already a legend when everybody else u love so much was in the olympics or at cruiser.
Hey Dru, you did not shout me out for stopping through.
LOL!! mike tyson? mr dru is just a 'fan boy' i guess
1.PACMAN
2.ALI
3.ROBINSON
As to Pacquiao vs. Mayweather, Pacquiao has proven his worth for being the only fighter to win 8 different divisions. He doesn't need Mayweather. If Mayweather wants to prove his worth, he has to step up against Pacquiao.
pacquiao doesn't need mayweather thats it!!!
but mayweather needs pacquiao to prove his worth!!!
Hey LB, aka Laced Bombs. Thanks for coming by and I'm right there with you man. Sorry for not getting back here sooner. The work load for my co is through the roof. Anyway, we really don't have to keep proving the Tyson case to people. Tyson will always be relevant to the sport. Despite all the back and forth, he's is still the youngest heavyweight champ ever, the first to unify all the belts, and is still one of the worlds most famous. He gave boxing a spark and the heavyweight division can use a Tyson now. I wasn't in a bubble, I know what Tyson meant to the sport growing up too. I support your comment all the way and I "get it".
Thanks for stopping by as well LS, CZYCH, Ken, and AnalystBx. As for Pacman, no doubt a special, excellent fighter and I think he's great. I love to watch him fight. However, I wasn't blown away by the Margarito fight, that was Margarito, also good but not Mayweather. That's what I expected to happen. Mayweather/Pacquiao is what I want to see---PERIOD. Shane Mosely completey destroyed Margarito and knocked him out flat WAY worse than Pacquiao. But when Pacquiao does it we throw him a parade.
I fought and I can see through the things people get excited about. Pacman against Margarito was supposed to be target practice---speed always wins. We already know Pacquiao's tough enough to bang with the big boys and in the end, his speed and skill will take over. Marquez on the other hand is a small guy who tossed Pacquiao a beating even though it went to a draw and again in a split decision L. Mayweather destroyed the man who destroyed Margarito AND Marquez. Mayweather is a dangerous combo of speed, power and intellegence for Pacquiao. Mayweather has all the ingredients that some of his opponents lacked. The bigger guy thing isn't a big deal. he'd have a better challenge from Andre Berto and lots of other small guys with speed and power that would bring a good battle to him.
Throw anyone in the ring with those guys and both Mayweather and Pacman will most likely win. Only difference is Mayweather would probably get hit less, and I admit, Mayweather's fight would probably be less exciting because he's too smart to trade haymakers and mix it up unnecessarily.
I guess all I'm saying is that yes Pacquiao is great, I know this. No need for anyone to start foaming at the mouth and going beserk. But when you put him on "Ali" status, understand that Ali fought his "Frasier" and "Forman" and Pacquiao didn't yet. He's the BEST and he has to fight the very best---FLOYD MAYWEATHER. No more exhibitions. They need to make this happen.
Defend your Floyd but he needs to step up to the ring with hte Pacman to prove that he is better. Pacman already cemented his status on the Top 10 All time greats.
I believe that Marciano should have been rated #1.He is the only one undefeated and he had the highest percentage of KO's of any Heavyweight Champ.When Roland La Starza fought him, Roland ended up with broken arms.The only one else that hit anything like that were Dempsey and Baer, when he bothered to train for a fight.
I like how you have kept answering peoples comments for 10 months and still active.
Can you tell what your full match prediction if pacquiao and mayweather fights? In my opinion, pacquiao and mayweather have 50-50 chance of winning.
Pac would win either late round 11-12 knockout(TKO if not KO) or Decision(but mayweather's resistance is far very high). Mayweather would win early round 5-6 by a sneaky body shot on manny (but pac's defense is very good in terms of seeing the punches coming at him). Manny pacquiao have that weakness that every boxing should know. One of his KO loss was from a body punch that sucked the air out of him.
Thanks for stopping by Drew, appreciate the comment. I usually steer clear of predictions---but if I had to put my money on it, I'd say Mayweather in a 12 round split decision.
Pacquiao would be the aggressor forcing the fight to Mayweather and Mayweather would be cautious and calculated. However by forcing the fight to Mayweather often is a fighter's undoing: he stays elusive, watches what you do and counters masterfully. However, I believe in Pacquiao so I don't really know what would happen. Still though, Mayweather has never hit the canvass and Pacquiao has, and even upon victory he's eaten alot of shots from guys who don't have Mayweather's skill. Pacquiao would defintely be the busier fighter, which always creates the appearance of the guy who's winning which would lead judges to give rounds to Pacquiao. For example, Dela Hoya was very busy in the Mayweather fight and so they gave him some rounds when in reality, he was hitting alot of air and Mayweather was smacking him left and right with dead on super accurate and clean power blows. All factors considered an intellegent prediction would be a Mayweather split decision in 12.
Hey man great list probably the best list I've seen so far and I really appreciate you putting JCC there . A lot of people forget how good this guy was and don't understand how hard it is to keep a record like dat. Also how he fought every fight as if it was a war. Thank you for putting him on there and I have 2 questions.
1. Do you think richerd steel (spelled wrong) was right to stop that fight.
2. Do you think his son julio cesar chavez Jr. Will ever be as good
Nice list, good to see you justified your opinion with words not just listed some names like most people. Personally would change a couple but good as a whole.
You said it only contains retired boxers so as I'm from England and surely now Audley Harrison must be retiring can he can be added???
(can't believe I watched him stand there for 3 rounds (haye vs harrison) god I wish the current standard of boxers was better)
What about frazier. On his day would of beaten any heavyweight ever (except joe louis) and was deffinatley the better puncher than ali (deserved winner of thrilla in manilla)
HEY I DONT THINK CHAVEZ SHOULD BE IN THAT LIST I THINK OSCAR DE LA HOYA DESERVE THAT SPOT
WHERES ROBERTO DURAN>>???....ALL THAT PAQUIAO IS DOING KNOW DOMINATING ALL THE DIVISIONS, DURAN DID IT WAY BACK...DURAN DEFINITELY TOP 10 ALL TIME...
HEY PACQUIAO IS GREAT BUT IF YOU SEE THERES NOT COMPETITION. YES HE BEAT OSCAR, BUT OSCAR WAS IN HIS LAST DAYS, COTTO NOT THE SAME AS YEARS BACK, MARGARITO I DONT THINK THAT HE WAS GREAT EVER. IF HE FIGHTS MAYWEATHER OR FIGHTS MARTINEZ AND BEAT THEM THEN WERE TALKING. UNTIL THEN HES GREAT BUT LIKE IN THE TOP 40
pacquiao is the ultimate boxer of the decade!!! mayweather is nothing!
Thanks for stopping by all you guys, alfonso, meeven, Jake, and mosquito. I read all your posts and respect your opinions. However I have to respond to you Erwin because there's alot of that going around. If you like Pacquiao, cool, but that doesn't mean you have to discredit Mayweather in order to like Pacman. It's not a prerequisite. And to be honest with you, Mayweather is a better "boxer". It's the truth.
And mosquito, I'll echo your point. Yes, Pacquiao is great, but he hasn't been fighting anyone worthy of "oohs and aaahs". Yes he was gonna beat Clottey, a washed up Dela Hoya etc etc. Enough of the coasting, which as busniness man I do respect to a certain degree, but he's the best. Fight the best. You're correct, Mayweather and Martinez are the real deal and its time. Those fights would finally show us something.
Who made this list a Mexican? ROBERTO DURAN was wayyyyyyyyyy better than Julio C. Chavez
This is a biased website. Mayweather must beat the top Welterweight and not the old Mosley.
Six heavyweights? Tyson??? Where are Greb, Langford, Monzon, Moore?
pacquiao he is the best of all time he prove his worth.
Hi. Great list, very interesting reading, however it does seem rather biased towards fighters who spent their careers fighting in the US.
Being from the other side of the water i feel i've got to suggest that Joe Calzaghe should easily make this list. Undefeated record of 46-0-0 with 32 by KO, held a world title for over 10 years and held titles in super middle weight and light heavy weight.
I know he wasn't popular in the US but that shouldn't exclude him. He fought and defeated everyone who went up against him including great boxers like Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Chris Eubank, Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler.
Well anyway just my opinion and would like to know yours on Joe.
EVERYBODY IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION BUT FOR ME MIKE TYSON WAS TRUEL A CHAMPION. HE GOT A RAW DEAL WITH THAT JAIL SENTENCE. HIS LAST TRAINERS DIDN'T KNOW JACK ABOUT TRAINING. UNDER THE RIGHT LEADERSHIP TYSON WOULD BE UNDEFEATED. MIKE BELIEVED THAT NOBODY COULD BEAT HIM. I BELIEVED THAT TOO::::
Hey man. Great list. But considering Pacquiao's historic rise in weight (4 lineal and 8 world titles) in 8 weight divisions, you got to give credit where credit is due. You must have made this list before the Margarito fight, Max Kellerman summarizes it all for that fight. He climbed 40 pounds and then gave up 17 pounds on that fight. And look at what he did to 165 pounds Margarito? Also, the quality of opposition on Pacquiao's career speaks for itself. There are atleast 10 future Hall of Famers on that list, and what did Manny did to those guys? Its either he beat them up or they sleep on the canvass. Also, in your regard as to Manny fighting Mayweather, Yes I agree that Mayweather may pose serious problems for Manny but even Mayweather Sr. admits that he is scare for his son to fight Manny. That speaks for Mayweather as well. I know your a fan of FM but MP have accepted each and every demand of FM, and what did FM do? He never have the heart to tell to the public that he wants to fight Pacman, remember the "negotiations" that apparently did not happen? IKR.
I think Pacquiao is the 2nd Greatest boxer of all time.Ali is my idol but Pacquiao beat also the best fighter on his generation and he is an 8 time division champion.
This list is silly. The top two picks werent even the best heavyweights, that was Johnson. The three greatest fighters ever arent even mentioned. Greb had the greatest career ever, hands down. Langford, i believe, at an equal weight would have beaten any man who ever lived. Lastly, Joe Gans was the most scientific and stylistically perfect the world has ever known. I would then add Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles and Sandy Saddler to the list.
STOP TALKING ALL YOU GUY!!!!!
FIGHT WITH ME MANNY AND U WILL EAT A DUST!!!!!
I read the list but have to say its lost any credibility with me because of the entry of Mike Tyson...are you joking? You are saying be real? I am a Tyson fan but he clearly does not belong in a Top Ten list period...your only claiming he should be based on his prime...which isn't what everyone else is judged on. Secondly...speaking of being real...Tyson himself said that he and his trainer were able to devise strategies to beat everyone but Muhammad Ali...so your saying he could beat anyone in his prime is purely your opinion...its not even Tyson's opinion. I understand its your list and you've justified most of your entries, but your explanation for Tyson is weak, and almost sounds desperate. Peace.
A PRIDE OF PHILIPPINES.....MANNY PACQUIAO!!!..... THE KING OF ALL BOXERS!!!!!!! THE GREATEST FIGHTER ON PLANET EARTH!!!!
hey druhepkins!, u know what? i think u are not aware of whats happening on the world of boxing right now!!!!.. majority of boxing press, ang boxing champs as well, they are in favored of PACMAN!!..
& me too, MANNY PACQUIAO is the GREATEST BOXERS IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!
his tremendous spees... scientific technics... powerful punch.... & a good heart.... Makes him the idol of boxing world....
PACMAN is KING OF ALL GREATEST BOXERS!!!!!
Hey Subzero. Yell it 3 more times if you feel it. Yell it again on a mountain top. What you have to realize is that the human thought process is very very limited and easily guided. That's just the way we are. If either of them fights last and kicks the other guys *** convinvcingly, then the commentators start leaning toward the other guy. Manny fought last....
Pacquiao is a warrior in the ring and a very likeable guy. Mayweather is defensive, technical fighter and no one really likes him. Everyone’s opinions are influenced and from a fan mentality. Case in point, in talks of fighting---Floyd says YES to the fight if he’s takes a drug test. Roach throws a tantrum and says NO way. Instead of everyone saying just take the damn test---everyone got pissed at Floyd saying he’s asking for too many things. I don’t think a drug test is that big of a deal or a crazy thing to ask in sport in which steroid use and other forms of cheating has been rampant.
I’m not emotionally attached or swayed by anything or either of them. I believe it would go the distance and Mayweather would win by decision. Don’t think he’s going to knock Floyd out cold or something, not likely. And Manny has an invincible image at the moment because he’s been fighting ppl he’s supposed to beat. Those guys aren’t Floyd, and Manny isn’t invincible----he can lose and has before. Floyd has just as much speed and power---and he’s smarter. And just for the record, no I haven't heard any commentators saying Manny would win.
Anyway and unfortunately, boxing is a sport governed by promoters and business men. To a certain degree there needs to be structure and a governing body to pick fights instead of leaving it to scheming managers and promoters all the time. In almost every other sport, you don’t just play whoever you want, you play who you’re supposed to until the best of the best play the best of the best. This stand off is stupid and unfair to the fans.
Thanks for stopping by man
Whoa! They got this all wrong. It goes like this:
1)Muhammad" THE GREATEST" Ali
2)Joe " THE BLACK BOMBER" Frazier
3)Mike" THE ANIMAL" Tyson
4)Sonny Liston
Thank you very much....
I have to say this is one the better lists I've seen. We all have one or 2 we may change but this was really good and you give great reasons.
@mercedes---no offense but I think this list is fine and ur the one thats way off. Liston 4th ahead of Foremon, Duran, Robinson, Joe Louis???----and Tyson and Frasier as 2nd and 3rd??? Don't attempt to make lists if you don't know boxing
hey mercedes -----what planet r u belong?? all your top listed fighter are not match on this time..
i beleave in Subzero---realy MANNY PACQIUAO is King of the boxing world.. ive seen most of the Mayweather fights...thus Pacman fights..
And nothing comparable to the extreme talent of PACMAN
would you imagine, all the mexican boxers are being defeated by this guy... and
and only 1 mexican can beat pacquio... its ZORRO!!! lol
top 1 - PACMAN!
top 2 -muhamad ALI
top 3 -Mayweather
1. Sugar Ray Robinson. Edges out Armstrong by a very narrow margin. From a purely technical point of view, he was as close to boxing perfection as anyone has ever come; lightning speed, could punch, had genuine one-punch KO power in both fists, superb defence and, even when that was breached, had a fantastic chin as well (never properly knocked out or stopped in 25 years and 202 fights). The greatest Welterweight of all time, and a top 5 Middleweight, too. His resume includes Kid Gavilan (who is a top forty all-time great for me), Carmen Basilio, Jake La Motta, Gene Fullmer, Fritzie Zivic, Rocky Graziano, Randolph Turpin, Jimmy Doyle, Tommy Bell, Sammy Angott, Henry Armstrong, Carl 'Bobo' Olson, Denny Moyer and many other quality fighters. He beat 14 world champions, which is incredible considering he fought in the days of far fewer weight classes and only one champion in each, three of them in his first year as a professional.
2. Henry Armstrong. The second greatest Welterweight of them all in my opinion, a top 10 Featherweight and a bloody good Lightweight, too. His feat of winning the Welterweight title while weighing inside the Lightweight limit, and then defending it 19 times in two years (again, often inside the Lightweight limit) is staggering. Was also on the end of a bad decision when he 'drew' in an attempt for the Middleweight title, to go with the Featherweight, Lightweight and Welterweight ones which he held all at the same time. Beat Ross (all-time top 20 in my book), Ambers (top 50) as well as Garcia, Jenkins, Bass, Larkin, Angott, Zivic, Belloise, Sarron, Arizmendi, Montanez, Pacho, Day, Manfredo and Wright.
3. Harry Greb. Easily the best Middleweight of all time, and a top 10 Light-Heavyweight, too. Beat more truly 'great' fighters than anyone; Gene Tunney, Mickey Walker, Tommy Loughran, Maxie Rosenbloom, Tommy Gibbons, Billy Miske, Gunboat Smith, Kid Norfolk, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Mike McTigue, Jeff Smith, Georges Carpentier, Johnny Walker, the list goes on. A model of consistency, too.
4. Muhammad Ali. Great longevity, and the greatest Heavyweight of all time in my eyes, as he beat three men (Foreman, Liston and Frazier) who would all make my all-time top 12 in that division. No other Heavyweight comes close in terms of who they actually beat, and Ali's speed and grace brought a new dimension to Heavyweight boxing that had been missing since the days of Gene Tunney.
5. Sam Langford. If Langford had been white, he would have been an outstanding world champion anywhere between Welterweight and Heavyweight. Stood only 5'6" but regularly knocked out Heavyweights who held huge height and weight advantages over him. Beat an all-time top 3 Lightweight in Joe Gans at a 140 lb catchweight, boxed a draw with an all-time top 5 Welterweight in Joe Walcott, and then right at the other end of the spectrum beat a possible all-time top 15 Heavyweight in Harry Wills. He rendered the term 'pound for pound' almost meaningless. A freakish puncher who also fought and beat men such as Jack Blackburn, Jack Johnson, Sam McVea, Joe Jeanette, Fred Fulton, Gunboat Smith, Harry Wills, Tiger Flowers and many more. Incredibly, fought a lot of his career while blind in one eye.
6. Roberto Duran. How many other Lightweights could have jumped up two weight divisions and handed one of the best Welterweights of all time (Ray Leonard) his first defeat? Duran beat a terribly underrated champion in Ken Buchanan to take the Lightweight crown, unified against the excellent De Jesus and made a record 12 defences, a record which still stands. Also beat men like Ernesto Marcel, Royal Kobayashi, Saoul Mamby, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas, Jeorge Castro, Davey Moore and Iran Barkley, adding the Light-Middleweight titles and also the Middleweight crown - a whole 17 years after his first title, by which time he was 38 years old.
7. Bob Fitzsimmons. The first truly great 'pound for pound' boxer. A truly freakish puncher who beat the legendary 'Nonpareil' Jack Dempsey for the Middleweight title (the first man to officially beat him) and then won the Heavyweight title from Jim Corbett, despite being severely outweighed. Lost the title to Jeffries (who was 56 lb heavier) but then bounced back to take the Light-Heavyweight title, at the grand old age of 41.
8. Ezzard Charles. Had to move up to Heavyweight to win a world title, but only because he was continually avoided by the Light-Heavyweight champions of his era. When you look at who he beat, it's clear that Charles was the greatest Light-Heavyweight of all time, and remember that 175 lb is probably the strongest division across boxing history. For starters, he was 3-0 against Archie Moore, who would make everyone's all-time top 3 at Light-Heavyweight. Also put men such as Gus Lesnevich, Jimmy Bivins, Harold Johnson, Ken Overlin, Lloyd Marshall, Joey Maxim and Teddy Yarosz amongst others to the sword, and his reign at Heavyweight is underrated, too; despite being past his best by the time he won the title, he made 8 successful defences, which is more than the likes of Marciano and Dempsey.
9. Benny Leonard. Aguably the best Lightweight ever, it's a toss up between him and Duran in my eyes. One of the most scientific boxers of all time, Leonard was very close to being the perfect all round fighter. Sleek and stylish, with a decent punch and a good defence. Held the Lightweight title for seven years between 1917 and 1924, and should have added the Welterweight title, too; he was comfortably outpointing Jack Britton (himself a brilliant champion at 147 lb) before getting careless and hitting him while he was down, which earned him a disqualification. Leonard also beat men such as Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Freddie Welsh, Rocky Kansas, Johnny Kilbane and Lew Tendler.
10. Eder Jofre. Was described by Nat Fleischer was the 'Ray Robinson of the Bantamweights', and he was right. Jofre could do it all, and was a thoughtful tactician as well as a venemous puncher. The best Bantamweight of all time in most people's eyes, beating quality opposition such as Jose Medel and Danny Kid before he even took the title from Eloy Sanchez, defending it 8 times including a unification bout with John Caldwell. The only man to ever beat him was Mashiko 'Fighting' Harada, who himself was probably an all-time top 10 Bantamweight, and even then the first fight was generally considered to be a poor verdict. Jofre retired, but then came back to win the Featherweight title and retired as champion, having beaten other outstanding fighters such as Jose Legra and Vicente Saldivar.
Hey Chris88,
You gave a very strong list of your own and I respect it. However, my list followed certain guidlines and better chose boxers who were the best of the best, as well as the ,most popular and culturally significant. Not just the best boxers by style, technique and skill. Good list though.
Thanks for stopping in.
nice list dude.though i think im gonna disagree on some of it. i believe the pacman should be on the list (retired or not). number 1. .. oscar dela hoya, mike tyson, muhammad ali, joe louis, ray robinson, rocky marciano, ray leonard and dutch aquino... tnx
chris88!
your list is good but not applicable as of this moment.I believe in Ali bakkati. PACMAN is now the king of boxers. And he's proven already his worth in 8 division..
GOBLESS YOU MANNY PACQUIAO!!!
Pac man has not made this list for a reason. All these guys have way outstanding records and many fights that went over 12 rounds. Try the 15 to 20 round fights 60 to over 100 fights in a career. Come on some people don't know much about fighting and putting there two sense into it.
Thanks for stopping in nikkijavier54@yahoo.com, Nikki langford, and Peter. Very hard keeping up with everyone and I may drop the ball here and there but I'm trying.
Thank you guys for appreciating the list, but I'm with Peter on this one. If Pacquiao fights 3 truck drivers next, people will vehemently insist he's the best of all time. As influenced fans, I don't think people are deciphering the difference between a guy who is the current king of boxing which I give him, and a guy who was the king of boxing and pummeled 8 super famous hall of fame legends in epic, legendary battles like Sugar Ray Robinson, or a guy who had epic battles with some of the of the biggest, and BEST HEAVYWEIGHTS OF ALL TIME ---and won---like ALi. You should also re-read Henry Armstrong and Willie Pep, their win streaks were the best in boxing for all time.
Except for going up into different, heavier weight classes, guys like aforementioned---and Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones, Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard to name a few, have already been doing what Pacquiao is doing for years: beating everyone at the top. When he's long retired and the smoke from Pacman fever clears, he will be judged accordingly and fairly. It’s premature to start throwing him up there as the best of the GOATS. I will say, beating Mayweather will change my tune a bit and earn him my vote for a GOAT. Mayweather's a decorated undefeated future Hall of Famer that would remove all doubt.
Thanks again guys.
Unfortunately your list actually made me laugh!
Tyson above Armstrong? Tyson just about makes my top 10 heavyweights of all time, and he is nowhere near a top 30 ATG list.
No mention of Harry Greb, over 300 fights? Duran, greatest lightweight of all time? Sugar Ray Leonard ? Langford? Tunney? Ezzard Charles? These names are crucial to any list.
And Joe Louis as number 1? I just don't understand. The top 3 boxers of all time are Sugar Ray Robinson, Harry Greb and Henry Armstrong. The order for me is irrelevant as it's easy to chop and change, but these three clearly stand head and shoulders above the rest.
Ali is my 4th followed by Leonard and Duran (how you don't include these two is beyond me).
And please please please, for the sake of boxing, get Tyson out of the god damn list! It's embarrassing.
I’m gonna have to disagree and support this list Dan. I read this page through from the first paragraph. People keep coming on this page and naming their own picks, who are also great I might add, but they just aren’t as popular or culturally significant---and consequently as “great”. You mocked Joe Lewis being 1 who was the best heavyweight of his era, an idol to Sugar Ray Robinson and Rocky Marciano, who pretty much fought for our country in the middle of war on an international stage. You mocked Tyson , the youngest Heavyweight ever who almost did it as a teenager. And talk about cultural significance and impact---Tyson’s the first and only boxer to unify all heavy weight belts, and the first and only boxer to have his own video game and cartoon in Asia. I think the writer makes it clear who’s on the list and why and I get it.
I might switch out 1 or 2. Chavez maybe for Duran or others on my personal 10 but this list is far from laughable. It’s respectable. Most lists I’ve seen are too “boxing nerdy” or way off. This list sums up all attributes pretty well for boxing fans and everyone else too.
Thanks for stopping by Dan and Bigdaveriffen.
And thanks for backing me up BDR, you pretty much said everything I could’ve said on the money. Thank you.
The only other thing I might add Dan is that yes, your fighters are all strong, of the best and I do acknowledge them, but the reality of the situation that you may not be getting is that this is a top TEN list. My top ten list. There are many great fighters but they can’t all make the fit. The guys you mentioned are most usually on a top 20 or 50 except for Ali and Robinson. Like BigDaveRiffen mentioned, popularity, competition they faced and cultural significance are all factored in on this list. All these things combined constitute greatness, relevance and impact on the sport. Even if done by computer your guys wouldn’t make top 5 except Ali and Robinson.
And guys leave Tyson alone already. If he died or stopped boxing in 1990 he’d be a demi-god. But because we saw him fall apart, people want to erase him. Not making excuses for him but he was unstoppable and at the top of his game in his prime. Then his father figure and boxing inspiration died. He got thrown in jail for 3 years for something he wasn’t guilty of; Desiree Washington accused another athlete prior to Tyson and they found out she was a liar and it wasn’t true. She confessed she lied in her other case in HS. For some reason they weren’t allowed to use that in court. Good ol’ justice system and lawyers. Anyway, then his wife divorced him. He got betrayed by everyone and cheated out of his money by Don King. Idiots heckled him probably hoping to sue him and he got into publicized fists fights and he went to court for that. Then he was acting out in public and wasn’t stable. His world was crumbling--the man needed a shrink and time off. Instead they drugged him up on anti depressants and threw him in the ring because everyone around him wanted that Tyson money and the rest is history. Tyson didn’t go out like the champ he could’ve been but he did enough to earn his relevance to the sport.
Sure wish I knocked everyone out, broke Olympic records, put boxing excitement and multimillion dollar purses back on the map, unified the Heavyweight belts before anyone else, had boxing cartoons, comic books, and had my own video game at 20. I welcome that kind of embarrassment any day Dan.
Mania de piersa should be there instead of tyson
I meant that Roberto duran manos de piers deserved a spot better than Tyson. But it's a great list.
Good job man ,so far this the best I've ever saw ,you must really true avid fan of boxing to have all this knowledge on this boxers,I admire people like you,,keep it up , GOD bless
Thank you guys Goerge and Ephraim and God bless you too Ephraim. I am a big boxing fan and I do know these boxers well.
And Goerge, Roberto Duran is a great champion who's without a question in my top 20 but not my top ten. You've already seen my defenses for Tyson. I love the sport and no other boxer owned his decade like that video game and all.
Thanks again guys
My main problem with Tyson is that he lost all of his big fights, Evander, Lewis etc.
I understand people no having Greb on the list as not many no about him, bit read a quick bio and you will change ur mind. If you base your list on cultural significants, sugar ray Leonard has to be included, he filled the void after Ali retired, and took boxing to a new audience beating ATGs such as Duran, Hagler, Hearns and Benitez. That resume is MUCH deeper than Tyson's, JJC, and Maricano's.
Hey I think your list is the perfect list honestly u could not have written it better my self. And for once a boxing enthusiast who recognizes tysons greatness!! I know mike Tyson 1986-1988 was the greatest boxer of all time. But I also recognize that he is bot the greatest boxer of all time because of it... You nailed the tyson thing on the button. Again the perfect list and a job well done!!!
I actually prefer Tunney (82-1-3) over Dempsey (66-6-9)
but I understand why he isn't on this list
with the "The Long Count Fight" and Dempsey was dominant
Simcha and Weston, thanks for coming by and supporting. Very flattering---thanks very much Simcha. A lot thought was put into it. And you got it Weston, despite my respect for Tunney, Dempsey's name had more of an echo way after his time.
I see your point with Tyson and Sugar Ray Leonard, Dan. Leonard is one of those decorated and memorable champs who filled a gap, and fought great opposition. But through fame or infamy, Tyson is still more of a staple in boxing to me with more of a legend, positive or negative---or both. In the same way that Dempsey brought a legendary draw, ppl who weren't necessarily boxing fans running to watch his fights. Tyson did that in the 80's and early 90's in unprecedented fashion.
And btw, Lewis and Holyfield weren't his biggest fights. His biggest fights technically was all 3 unifying the belt with Trevor Berbick and gang. Lewis and Holyfield were his "biggest name" fights, late in his career---after his prime, and when it was clear he wasn't mentally ready. He was entering the ring the way Joe Lewis did with Marciano: Life was beating him up and he and everyone around him was there to pick up a pay check. He was pretending to be "Iron Mike Tyson" and you could tell. He fought Holyfield fresh out of jail and mentally frazzled. Cus would never have allowed it. They fought 6 years after they were originally supposed to fight, 6 years of court, 3 yrs in the can, public defamation and meds, you saw he was a different Tyson but it still went to 11.
Tyson is remembered for what he was, and what he could've been. Commentators called him "The baddest man on the planet", he won all of his first 19 fights by KO, 12 of them IN THE 1ST ROUND, and then went on to unify all heavyweight belts at 20. As a kid we watched to see what he'd do in his 1st championship fight against a very respected Michael Spinks (who just beat Larry Holmes)---and he knocked him at in a record breaking 91 seconds. No one wins a championship fight in 91 seconds. In the 80's and early 90's, he was THE champ, no one else, cased closed. But then hey, life happens.
Thank you guys again.
mike tyson true legend.
his speed his power and pure desire to win. every young up and coming boxer should watch and take note of what he did in the ring. then maybe we wouldnt see the rubish in the likes of harrison (who you cant even call a boxer) even david haye just think what tyson would have done to these idiots.
A top ten list without Roberto Duran is just laughable. Please try to explain to me your reasoning for leaving him out?
I would put Ray Robinson at No1, Armstrong should be higher. I would also include Roberto Duran and Harry Greb. Not sure I would not include Dempsey and Marciano in an all time P4P list though.
I think this list is great. I'm sure everyone has 1, maybe 2 that we'd switch out but this list came closest to anything I'd agree with 100% or respect. Good stuff
Hello.nice list.i like the fact that you took into consideration important issues like background{political social economical and of course...war}.Many people don't realize that some fighters fought during the war{like Joe Louis or Rocky who was in the army when he started boxing amateurly}.
It is a bit off-topic though but i wonder if you know a Greek kick-boxer by the name Mike Zambidis{or else called Iron Mike u know like Tyson}.If you don't you should check him out.he is amazing.{as i said this was off-topic}.
Thanks for stopping Large, ALB, Simone64, HUFF21, and Cryingboxer. And sorry for taking so long.
@Large, you can’t erase Tyson and people will always defend him when ppl try to pluck him out. Can’t be done. Thanks man.
@ALB, you can check all up and down this page my reasons. Roberto Duran is a great champion. However, I keep explaining the criteria. This isn’t just a pound 4 pound.
@simon64. I disagree with you about Dempsey. And Marciano definitely wasn’t the best of the best and we know that. But he’s an undefeated champion, one of boxings hardest hitters, and he’ll always be a staple in boxing which is why he’s here.
Huff21, thank so much man. I appreciate when others appreciate the list.
@Cryingboxer. Thank you so much for your comment man. Like I said before, I really love it when people actually read the criteria and respect the list for what it is lol. I love the sport, I know my stuff, and yes I did put a lot of reflection into. And yes, there’s a lot that goes into to being “great” and remembered. Some people get it some don’t.
I do know of the kick boxer you’re talking about and he is great. I don’t know too too much about him to speak volumes because I don’t follow kick boxing as much but I do know him. In respect to your suggestion I’ll check him out closer.
Take care guys and thanks again.
are you kidding me the rock is at #8 this must be a black guys web site the hardest puncher in boxing ever and the racket speeks speeks for itself smart in up dummys 49 and 43 ko's
Thanks for stopping by salle v.
To respond to you, I did him a favor out of respect for the other criteria in my list. I do respect Marciano and he is one of boxings hardest hitters. But look, Marciano doesn't make the top ten best of all time on most "black or white guys" legitimate or professional P4P lists. Re-read the caption and you'll learn why. Anytime you do see him in a top ten list or as number 1, it's probably not legitimate and one might conclude "hey, this might be some white guys list." Also, I'm not the one in need of smart-in-ing up, put your 'racket' down and don't 'speek' like that. No need for aggression here.
We all have our opinions and yours are welcome...
Thanks again for stopping by.
tyson would beat anybody on this list, with the possible exception of ali. athletes get bigger, stronger, and faster, no exceptions
ali had a better career, but i think tyson would beat him on his best day. also, people mention duran, but not SR leonard, did they not see no mas?
Hey greg moll.
Yeah, Tyson was was a bad boy KO sensation. When he was ready he could KO the best with that unprecedented 1st round KO finishing power. But I agree Ali wasn't a sure thing. Ali figured out how to beat Foreman who was the KO king of the day who slapped Frasier around like a little brother. Ali was talented and an intelligent fighter who could smell out his comp and find a way to win.
Sugar Ray definitely deserves props and made the great Duran quit. In a top 20 they'll all be there though.
Thanks for stopping by and and posting man.
Good list I think it is one of the most accurate lists I have ever read but I would like to ask what do you think of Roy Jones Jr I heard he was one of the best heavyweigh boxers ever.
Hey Gary,
Thanks for the compliment. I think Roy Jones Jr, was definitely one of the best Light Heavyweights of all time, but is a little too cocky, and stayed in the game a little too long. His "light" was gone in his late fights with Tarver, Hopkins and Calzaghe. It was over for him and some fighters need to no when to quit. He shouldn't have fought those guys when he did. He should've fought Calzaghe 5-10 years ago when he would've won and it would've been a great fight. If he wants to stay in the game to collect checks, he'd better be careful who he picks. He's not prime time anymore. He was the best, but he's not like Hopkins who is incredibly fighting still relevant and close to the big 50 like Duran.
Sometimes fighters just ride their name out for the paycheck which might be what he did. In his prime however, he was the best and the aforementioned would've never stopped him. He was too fast, strong, athletic, and smart. The boxing world quickly moved on from him, but his reign was long and we shouldn't forget just how good he was.
Finally---a blog list from a guy that actually knows what he's talking about. There are so many awful lists out there written by "Pac-tards" and a host of other people who obviously don't crap about boxing. They know 20 boxers and put 10 of them on the list. This list was well researched and strong. Nice!
if sugar ray leaonrad is not in yuor top 10, you have a bad list!
You like Ray Leonard Frankee06. I do too buddy. He's awesome but he isn't in any professional top ten lists including ESPN and Ring Magazine so I won't take your opinion seriously or personally. He's in a lot of top 20's and 50's for sure. I don't have a bad list, you might have a bad disposition and you need a better outlet for your opinions.
Anyway, I do agree he is awesome and worthy of notation. He's in my top 20 for sure. Sugar Ray Leonard will always be a staple in boxing. He definitely filled a void after Ali and before Tyson. Top 20 for sure. Unfortunately everyone can't be squeezed into a top ten.
Anyway, Thanks for stopping by man
What a load of fucking bollocks Mike Tyson was sensational not great!!, Joe Louis said SRR was the greatest so this is it, after pick three it doesn't matter who is where:
1: Sugar Ray R
2:Muhammad Ali
3:Joe Louis
4:Henry Armstrong
5:Manny Paquiao
6:Benny Leonard
7:Willie Pep
8:Roberto Duran
9:Sugar Ray Leonard
10:Harry Greb
Don't look no further there is over 80 years of boxing experience going into this list and this list is conducted by men that have seen all these fighters live in their time.
Hello thanks for answering my previous question and I would like to ask you who are your top ten favorite boxers or are they the same as this list thanks.
manny pacquiao is 10 time world champion in 8 weight division.. no one has done that in the entire boxing history.. Manny has offered a fight on Floyd but floyd refuses to fight him afraid to ruin his unbeaten record. Manny is truely the greatest boxer of all time, he elevated the boxing world..
Great List!!! druhepkins
the only boxer who gets 10 world title in 8 weight division is Manny Pacquia. No one has ever done it. he is also one of the greatest featherweight ever, he defeated all the best featherweight at his time.. he keep moving up his weight because he do not have any suitable opponent in lower classes..
cant you hear how people clamor for the name of Pacquiao?.. he is the most popular boxer today..
He is what we could say, the most in demand boxer of today
He is the greatest Filpino fighter of all time
He is the greatest Asian boxer of all time
He is the Three time fighter of the year
He is the fighter of the decade
Many said pacquiao save boxing of today's time, not mayweather..
Pacquiao dont need a hiding and avoiding mayweather to be great..
He is greater than tyson, greater than chavez, greater than marciano, greater than willie peps, I tell you man, you are CRAZY...
one more thing, he is greater than Henry armstrong and jack dempsey
people loved his brawler style that dominate all his opponent.. people loved him, throughout the world..
he stop barrera, he stop morales, he stop de la hoya, he stop cotto, he stop hatton, he beat marquez they are all great.. he devastated the mighty big margarito. thats how great he is..
Manny Pacquiao!!!!
MANNY PACQUIAO IS ON STERIODS. It is the most obvious, blatant thing that everyone is choosing to ignore because everyone is high on Pac-man fever and think he’s the reincarnation of Jesus. Manny wouldn’t even be in Floyd’s radar without the juice. That is exactly why Freddie Roach wouldn’t even agree to test Manny after the fight. He wanted it at least 24 days before or after the fight so his cycle would go undetected. He’s juicing and a lot of boxing professionals know it.
He was a good featherweight fighter who used to get knocked down by other featherweights. Now all of a sudden he could eat shots all night by bigger boys like Miguel Cotto and big Margarito---and then beat them into submission? He used to get dropped by little Marquez and Morales---now he’s 150lb welter weight knocking out out welterweights and middlewights. Please.
Pacquiao isn’t a hands on guy. He has no clue what he’s on and what he’s being shot up with. His trainers even admitted Manny doesn’t know anything. He asks no questions and takes whatever the trainers give him.
After the Diaz fight, he was suddenly a different fighter in a different weight class with different capabilities and its obvious.. Boxing needs him right now so he’s protected. Mayweather is a smart cookie and knew how to trip up the cheater. Sure enough they refused the test that Mosely and countless others had no problem taking. They want to keep this charade going and avoid being held to a better testing system.
Enjoy the ride while it lasts Pactards. The curtain will be ripped down very soon. Watch
the fighters has been tested everytime they have a fight.. if he take drugs that would be detected.. cant you see the way pacquiao trained?..the hard works he's giving in.. thats the secret of his mightiness.. he losses fight but thats before he became invincible.. he beat all the featherweights out there ands thats the truth.. mayweather is coward.. pacquiao have agreed in the random drug test but still he refuses to fight manny
pacquiao is a natural welterweight thats why he changed a lot after the diaz fight.. he dont go down in weight too much anymore.. Ur such a jerk saying Pacquiao is on steroid, maybe you I guess so.. and I tell you no one could beat pacquaio until the day he retired.. He's the greatest I believe so....
and by the way pacquiao was never knockdown by any featherweight, have your research and tell me who featherweight knock him down! Hes one of the greatest in featherweight for all time, nobody can deny it..
Great article, boxing is a long lost sport now that UFC has taken over which is too bad
Stay healthy and check out my site
I agree trueboxer. Many boxers knowingly or unknowingly employ trainers that administer illegal performance enhancers who know how to slip through the system. It happens very often and they know what theyre doing. Freddie Roach had fighters bagged for roids before. Pacquiao was always good, but he changed in size, weight and capability suspiciously late in his career when most would slowing down a bit. He got stronger and faster. He was once a featherweight neck in neck with Marquez, and now looks like Bruce Lee----and is an unstoppable welterweight taking out middleweights. All of a sudden he’s pound for pound with Mayweather who could kill Marquez and Morales. No he isn’t a “natural” welterweight. He clearly put on more lean, ripped muscle weight, not loose natural weight. People are just now scratching their heads and mulling it all over. I know how corrupt the game is and I don’t buy it either.
where is Oscar De La Hoya and Marciano should have been higher up on the list he was undefeated after 49 fights I think that says a lot about the guy plus Muhammad Ali should have topped the list just because of his Sheer persona an International recognition
Hey again Gary. Since you asked a direct question I’ll answer you first then respond to some of the other responses heating up. I never have a favorite anything, but if I had to pick my favorite boxer as far as pure boxing goes it might be Sugar Ray Robinson. He’s definitely the pound for pound best of all time. He’s was the best fighter hands down: He was a masterful boxer and smart technician like Mayweather, but he was also a fighter who brought it on like Pacquiao. He’s the only one that I could see taking a beating from the best---Sugar Ray Leonard, Duran, Pacquiao, and still rallying back to find a way to outbox, punish, then take over because he was just that good. Robinson was the punisher and out-boxer of Hall of Fame boxers.
My favorite boxer “just ‘cause” is definitely Muhammad Ali. What a force of nature. Many people herald him, some people discredit him as overhyped---but whether they realize it or not---they kinda’ can’t. It’s boxing blasphemy if you will. As a fighter, he was boxing’s most electrifying, boxing’s fastest and most skilled heavyweight, boxing’s biggest personality, was boxing’s biggest and best promoter (even as a fighter) and the list goes on. From Olympic gold to winning the title heavyweight title an impressive 3 times (back when it meant something) he was an inspiration who kept himself the most talked about and revered of all time. He was also a strong man who spoke his mind. Boxing is missing powerful men like this. His years out of the ring when he was stripped of his title, he still was a “fighter” and captivated the world.
As for the other men on my list above, most of them are among my favorites like Joe Louis, although I’d slip Duran in there. Sugar Ray Leonard and George Foreman have also impressed me. Sugar Ray fought all his arch nemesis’ and won. Beating Hagler, Duran and Hearns—3 hall of fame legends that could’ve dropped him is greatness. George Foreman coming back and winning the heavyweight title again at almost 50, is also super impressive. So many boxers to speak of which I why I don’t do favorites. Robinson, Ali and Lewis are my top 3 though, doesn’t matter the order. As for a top ten favorite list? I'd really have to sit and think about that. Definitely more than half of the aforementioned guys above would be on it though.
Thanks for stopping by loneboxer and Bilalnr. Appreciate you guys coming by and supporting the list
Lanzkie, ironic you mentioned "crazy". I would like you to just take a deep breath man. There isn't a person who wouldn't agree with you that Pacquiao is the man right now. No need for any over zealous rants.
I agree with your arguments but it really needs to be taken down a notch. The same goes for nutzko and Jude Anthony who I also wanted to give the respect of a response. Pacquiao is better than Henry Armstrong and Willie Pep guys??? Why? Because he’s the best thing out at the moment? Let’s be reasonable people. You’re celebrating that Pacquiao beat Hatton, Dela Hoya, Margarito and whoever else, but hello--- Mayweather beat those guys too, including Mosley who destroyed Margarito----and Mayweather’s undefeated. It’s not fair or logical to rate Pacquiao that high and skip over Mayweather, Sugar Ray Leonard, George Foreman, Roberto Duran, Harry Greb and countless others deserving of a vote in front of Pacquiao.
Yes we know Pacquiao's the man, but calm down. Let him continue to do his thing and retire. After the smoke clears and all is said and done, he’ll be remember justly. Insisting he’s better the Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong and harshly criticizing anyone’s opinion otherwise is a little bit fanatical.
I respect of all of your opinions and thank you guys for coming by.
And thank you Trueboxer, tophe09, Peter D, and again Jude Anthony. You guys are talking about an issue that keeps popping up in boxing blogs lately. A lot boxing professionals and pro boxers are stating that they feel Pacquiao has been juicing.
Is he suspicious?---I listened to the arguments for months, spoke to my other boxer friends and all things considered, I’d have to agree. It’s rampant in the sport as it is. Suspicious certainly doesn’t mean he’s guilty, nor am I saying he is-- but he does have people thinking.
trueboxer, I posted something on a forum extremely close to what you posted---almost exact. It wasn't as accusatory though, but more in Mayweather's defense that people need to stop going crazy blaming Mayweather for the fight not happening because Paqcuiao was just as---if not more, responsible. Mayweather is the biggest payday in boxing. Normal testing is a joke and Mayweather had every right to request the test as one of his demands. Pacquiao chose not to take one. And now the suspicious is growing even more.
The way in which he gained weight, and how the extra weight looks is one thing: With the extra weight, he’s more ripped and vascular than ever. It doesn’t look like he has any water retention which is odd. Also, the fact the he used to have his hands full with featherweights like Marquez and is now banging it out with middleweights---and winning, is another. But refusing the drug test and making a huge deal about not taking it, especially since the fight would’ve been one of the biggest paydays in boxing---even more suspicious.
I don’t think Pacquiao is afraid to fight Mayweather or anyone. His camp was more concerned with the drug test. Very concerned. Refusing the drug test, and offering several different reasons like he doesn’t like needles, it will affect his fight etc etc----especially coming from Freddie Roach who had problems with fighters on steroids in the past is an indication of something not right. I didn’t think the test should’ve been that big of a deal to call off the fight of the decade if he was clean.
However, I never publicly accuse anyone of anything as fact that I don’t know for sure. Opinions are just opinions.
I do think the sport should randomize drug testing---period. It’s the only way to keep the sport clean. If testing was random, we wouldn’t have this problem and Mayweather or any boxer wouldn’t need to request anything. Both of them would be tested at any random time so there could be no valid accusation of scheduling cycles---and no pro boxers with egos could be allowed to flat out refuse. Athletes should NOT know when their tests are----period. Because Freddie Roach and the Pacquiao camp don’t have to take random testing, they’re refusing it because they can. I think all boxers on that level should all be subject to that kind of testing all the time. And no it shouldn't be a big deal and something to call off a fight about.
Thanks for your contribution guys. Thanks for your contribution too Shacco.
Pacquiao have agreed in the random drug test but mayweather still refuses to fight. . Thats all, thank you
Do you guys have seen Manny on training?.. His speed and power can be seen even if hes not still reducing weight.. He is showing phenomenal speed and power.. So you guys are saying Manny Pacquiao is on steroids while in training?.. Then that would be detected when he take a test before the fight.. That speed and power he is showing in training is what we could see when he fight!! He is beating his sparring partners even they are tall and big even at his featherweight time..
Ozzy, I don't agree with you man, but thanks for coming by and contributing. Dela Hoya was a great fighter but he's lucky to crack a top 50. There are just too many great fighters in front of what he achieved. Top 50 definitely--- top 10, no way. And put Marciano 20 years or so years before his time or after and that 0 would go easily. Guys who aren't even in most top ten lists like Sonny Liston, Jack Johnson, George Foreman, Joe Frasier, and Sam Langford would've cleaned his clock. If a fighter fought a slew of Hall of Fame boxers IN THEIR PRIME and not over 35, and fought a great list of A class fighters all throughout his career---and is still undefeated, then that's saying something. Tough fighter, but it didn't quite work out that way. Respect him, of course. But no need to bump him up.
And Jhon-oh and Jude anthony, I know you guys love Pacquiao, but I don't think you understand why the speculation is out, how steroids are administered and how they actually work. Steroids are taken in "cycles". One of the whole points for steroids is for training faster, harder and longer. They're not power pellets you pop in before fights. You feel better, faster, stronger period--- and you see the effects and results for a long time. Boxers just time their cycles so that they get all of the effects, but it peaks out of their system in time for drug testing, then they do it all over again when the blood reads clean. Many boxers resort to that edge and trainers are known for secretly endorsing it. To get your fighter better stronger and faster and have him beat the drug test is what they want as much as the fighter--so it gets done. It suddenly becomes a problem however, if the fighter doesn't know when his test is and he loses control of dictating the cycle. The fighter will do what he can to avoid having no control of drug testing.
Again guys, not saying he did it and I’m not accusing him. I will treat his legacy as if he’s clean unless I hear otherwise. Some guys on my page are saying he did it, some are saying he did not. I’m not throwing myself down with either side and I’m admitting that I just don’t know. That’s everybody’s truth whether you accept it or not.
And Jhon-oh, no Pacquiao never changed his mind and decided to take the test. You can’t be impressionable guys. In this day and age there are a lot of crazy fans that post their own facts and spread them. It’s just more BS to make Floyd look bad and Pacquiao look better. Go to ESPN, Ring magazine and reputable sports sources to fact check before posting. Trust me, they still unfairly lean in favor of Pacquiao because he's better liked---and because the way we human beings think, we need to create a hero and a villain----but at least the info will be more correct from reputable sites. Pacquiao refused the test and that was that. Roach I’m sure after consulting with his trainers, came back and agreed to getting tested but almost a month before or after the fight----still enough to time to beat the test if you were clean or not and of Mayweather refused. Mayweather wanted Olympic style, random testing or nothing and Pacquiao didn’t want it---case closed and nothing has changed.
when Pacquiao has n fight he is weighing at about 145-150 lbs. that means he is really a natural welterweight. That even shows when he is fighting at featherweight, he is weighing 140 lbs or more when he has no fight.
At his climbing up at welterweight he dont need to reduce much thats why he was not pressed much to catch the weight limit. Pacquiao has the natural speed and his punching power increases because he step up in weight. His stamina is phenomenal and that we all saw even back at his bantamweight time. He maintain same phase of energy and sustain speed and power throughout the whole fight from round 1 until round 12.
Pacquiao speed is not affected with his climbing up in weight because it is his natural weight. When he fought De la Hoya he only weigh 144 lbs at the weighing scale same as well when he fought Margarito. Meaning he did not weigh higher than his natural weight, that is why his speed was not affected at his fight. Pacquiao didn't increase his weight too much to catch up to the catch weight limit, instead he stay up in his natural weight so he could maintain his speed that is his main weapon.
This all mean that he did not take steroids to improve his performance. Pacquiao is just an extra ordinary individual and a once in a lifetime boxer that you all cant accept.
@jude anthony. Enlighten me, now how is that proof that he isn’t juicing? That was terrible. Steroids don’t mean you turn into wolverine and gain a million pounds. 145-150 is now his new (tight and ripped)consistent weight. Some steroids improve ability and don’t even add much weight at all, especially when you're using it to train intensely. Pacquiao gained weight and has more veins going through his muscles. Trainers know you don’t usually get vascular and more cut when you gain weight naturally. There is at least 10 well known professional boxers, trainers and analyst that I can name that all have publicaly stated they feel Manny Pacquiao is on steroids.
He was good, but he had his hands full with lightweight, bantum and featherweights. He’s been hurt and stunned by them. Morales or Marquez were once Pacquioa’s equals. Now Pacquiao’s mysteriously no longer in their league---and he went energizer bunny on Dela Hoya, and he’s trading power shots with Hatton, Cotto and Margarito, guys who would eat lightweights alive----takes it all, then wins? Bull shit.
No way dude. Freddie Roach had athletes on steroids before and got caught. Of course Roach knew and I don’t buy it now with Pacquiao. Especially after refusing the test and Pacquiao and Roach quacking like ducks and chickens about it. They spun it and made it it seem like Mayweather was so out of line for requesting that our dear King Pacquioa take a drug test. This will slowly backfire. Pacquiao’s slip is showing.
Besides Pacquiao probably doesn’t even know anything or what he’s taking. He takes whatever his trainers give him.
You’re a naive fan man. There might be things that fans like you outside of the sports world can’t see, understand or accept. I just don’t think you know how things happen in boxing.
Late in his career, Pacquiao is suddenly a different fighter who is bigger, stronger, faster, fighting middle weights, and avoiding drug tests with Freddie Roach. HE IS ON THE JUICE. Half the boxing world knows. So do the Mayweathers and Mayweather will force him to take the test. But---bet you he never will.
Thanks for coming back again guys (Trueboxer and jude anthony). Hot debate and I hear both sides of the tale. I personally can never accuse someone of anything for which I have no factual proof. There are only rumors and speculation and I just have to assume he isn’t until I hear otherwise. To the people, experts, and pro boxers that feel he is, I understand the suspicion and it isn’t outlandish. There are many things to make one scratch their head, in addition to trying to avoid being randomly tested, Freddie Roach’s history of fighters using steroids, and Pacquiao’s dominant ascent to a higher weight class, showcasing a new ability to withstand power shots from bigger men who I couldn’t see him withstanding, let alone knocking out or winning in previous years.
I wouldn’t emphatically disagree with either point of view, but personally I would just change the certainty and finality to both points of view. No one can say for sure that he is, and no one can insist that he isn’t. We don’t know. Some feel he is and some hope he isn’t but neither side knows for certain.
I mainly feel that people need to stop blaming Mayweather for the fight not happening. Especially because of the suspicion, his request was reasonable and Pacquiao and Roach defiantly refused.
Mayweather is cocky, but he’s a natural clean fighter and just wants to make sure everyone he fights is too in a corrupt sport. When everyone was accusing him of ducking Mosley, Mayweather asked Mosley to take the same test, and then on his word he signed the contract, came into the ring and smacked Mosley around for 12 rounds. Same situation here, and sometimes you MUST make compromises when fighting another A list fighter. It was Pacquiao who didn’t feel he needed to do anything to make the fight happen for the people or his legacy, not Mayweather. It was just a drug test.
Mayweather agreed to pay Pacquiao 10 MILLION DOLLARS for each pound over weight, plus both fighters stood to earn tens of millions of dollars each----but Pacquiao turned down the fight because of a test. Pacquiao’s stamina, chin and sudden rise to the bigger guys is uncanny. Mayweather just wants to make sure he’s legit before for he risks his undefeated status and I would too. Freddie Roach and Manny’s uproar and refusal raises eyebrows further. It’s not Mayweather fault at all and people need to stop being unfairly influenced by who they favor.
Thanks again guys
You're an intellegent dude and I respect your list and great discussion too. You set the last word always. great stuff here. I agree with almost everything you say. good stuff man.
Pacquiao most comfortable weight is on the welterweight.. Regarding his power, many expert have said when he was still at the featherweigt that he has the power of a welterweight, then where we could compare his power now that he is in the welterweight.. in a featherweight? lol.. pacquiao, have withstand the power of his opponent in the welterweight because he haven't been hit too much.. but when he is hit, he got hurt too.. im not saying that his adding weight because of steroids, what im saying is he does not add his weight too much so could maintain his speed.. pacquiao's stamina has no question, we have seen it before at his bantamweight and featherweight times. He has it, he was gifted with it, an unbelievable stamina.. Pacquiao didnt knock his welterweight opponent with just one punch, but with consistent beating they recieved from him, because they have been hit too much.. therefore his power is not questionable.. I tell you guys, there is no miracle with Pacquiao's rise. Its just the same Manny we have saw..
pacquiao refused to mayweather because mayweather stated so many demands that seems like a kidnaper who kidnaped Manny's child or a hostage taker that hostage Manny's family.. Manny have agreed with the drug test and give him a cut-off.. When manny would ask for a 7 day cut-off he would refuse and make it a 1 day cut-off, when manny would agreed he would make it before going up to the ring, when manny would agree he would say they'll do it every end of the round, when manny still agree he would still say to do it while they exchanging punches in the middle of the ring.. Thats how he was avoiding the fight..
Mike Tyson is still the badest man alive. And yep, he would have beat the shit out of any boxer on that list. But dude, no list is complete without Lennox Lewis
What do you think about Lennox Lewis don't you consider him as one of the greatest boxers?
Dude, no offense, but I feel you’re a duped fan that will defend him to the death no matter what is obviously right in front of our faces. Manny Pacquiao is a fraud who is on EPO and HGH, and he’s a completely different fighter than he used to be. The sooner you accept it, the better you will handle it when it all blows up if and when he gets exposed.
Mayweather didn’t have too many demands. They duped you to believe that when the facts and emails between the 2 camps say otherwise. Mayweather’s single demand was a drug test a whole 2 weeks before the fight. That’s it. Team Pacquiao actually had way more demands and excuses. “Manny hates needles, o manny this o manny that”. O manny is on steroids my friend. That’s why I don’t respect Pacquiao. He’s the biggest fraud in boxing and if you check his history, he’s a consummate bullshitter and excuse maker. Pacquiao and Roach are lying to you and everyone while playing the saintly role of “the nice guys”. He was never the fighter he is now and They walked away from the hugest payout ever and said no because he’s on steroids. Done, and that's all there is to it.
Now let’s analyze the reasons his detractors believe that Pacquiao is taking illegal substances. They’ve said that Pacquiao has gained about 20-pounds of muscles mass. Is Pacquiao now a super middleweight? If that’s the case then he might as well take Jermaine Taylor’s place in the Super Middleweight Tournament. The fact is that he has not even made the maximum weight in most of his fights above the lightweight division.
It’s just an exaggerated statement made by envious people who know that most fans will take it at face value without looking at the facts. It was the same case when Mayweather detractors said that the latter had a 20-pound advantage over Marquez during their fight. You can’t always believe what you hear.
If you are a hardcore boxing fan then you should know that Pacquiao had been draining himself to make the weight in the lower divisions and thus was forced to move up in weight. In addition, his weight has not dramatically risen as Floyd Sr. and others try to make you believe. His weight during fight time has been constantly around 144 to 148 since his junior lightweight days. The truth is that he has outgrown the lower weight divisions and is just forced to lose less weight.
Also Mayweather had released statements that it’s for the sake of sportsmanship and fairness. I guess showing up two pounds over the weight limit shows professionalism and fairness. We also have Schaefer stating that Pacquiao should have no problem undergoing the Olympic-style drug testing. This is from a guy who was previously quoted in an Associated Press article as saying that the Nevada Athletic Commission testing is sufficient enough when Zab Judah wanted Shane Mosley to take a blood test during negotiations for a possible fight.
Others have also criticized Pacquiao for using superstition as an excuse for refusing to take a blood test. Is this coming from real sports fans and analysts? If it is, they should know that superstitions have been part of sports since day one and many athletes follow certain rituals very seriously before or while playing their respective sports. Michael Jordan always wore his blue Carolina shorts before each game for good luck. Baseball pitcher Turk Wendell brushed his teeth and chewed licorice between innings.
The criticisms about Pacquiao’s fear of needles and how it might affect him are also ignorant. Did they mention that Pacquiao felt weakened when blood was drawn before the first Morales fight? Who is to say that it won’t affect him? I know someone that feels dizzy for a week when he takes a blood test. It might be all psychological but it affects your performance nonetheless. Each person’s body is different; some people can go to work with a hangover and some can’t.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if Michael Jordan was required by the opposing team to take a unnecessary blood test before Game 7 of an NBA championship?
We’ve also heard a few people bring up the fact that if Pacquiao can have tattoos, then he should not have a problem with taking a blood test. The difference is that Pacquiao can go home and rest after he has his tattoos done. He’s not waking up the next day to face one of the best boxers in history. Boxing is a violent sport and a fighter must be ready both mentally and physically.
This issue shouldn’t even be taken seriously and the timing of it is suspicious. It's funny how Oscar said that Pacquiao didn’t hit hard, yet now feels that Pacquiao should succumb to a 'non-mandatory ' drug testing.
It's even more laughable when it's coming from Mayweather Jr., whose credibility is questionable and has a history of hypocrisy. Mayweather needs to step up and sign the contract if he truly wants to fight Pacquiao before it's too late. Pacquiao's legacy is already secured as an all-time great and doesn't need Mayweather to validate his greatness.
Looking at the various media articles, the alleged comments from either camp - - personally, i believe Pacquiao is not against drug test (even blood tests in principle, if this has been applied consistently in all professional boxing fights) - IT'S BASICALLY THE IDEA OF RELINQUISHING CONTROL to your opponent. Part of the battle is not just inside the ring, but the mental/psyche side. I'm sure if Pacquiao accepted all the requests from Mayweather (a camp that is not a paragon of virtues/including Golden Boy that have protected Mosley from similar requests in the past against Zab Judah and now trying too hard to be "saints"), Mayweather will say "see - I'm the biggest persona in boxing; all roads end with Mayweather; even the great Pacquiao accede to my commands". Pacquiao sees that! and the focus boxing fan sees that!
One more thing, in pacquiao's previous fights with Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Joshua Clottey and even in Margarito he is the more favored to win.. Others even predicted a knockout.. That mean, people know that Pacquiao can win those fight. He is even more than a 3-1 favorite. Now that he have won those fights people are saying that he take steroids! That's laughable.. people say he is taking steroids because he defeated those boxers, well in fact they have known that Pacquiao can win those fights prior of the bout. When he is still at the lower weights people are clamoring for him to step to welterweight to face many great boxers and now they were shock because he is winning in there?.. So you mean to say Pacquiao should have lost his fights at the welterweight so he shoudn't have been suspected in taking steroids?.. you're shit man..
Pacquiao have stated many reasons why he was hesitant in taking the drug test. If youre looking for fairnesss, this would not be fair for Pacquiao. Manny's main weapon so he could beat Mayweather is his speed and power. If Manny got weaken because of the blood test or either both of them got weaken that would be an advantage for mayweather because he is the more tactical fighter. Pacquiao's chance in winning the fight is his explosiveness and thats what mayweather wanted to be gone from him(Pacquiao). Mayweather is just finding any way to secure he could snatch a win if their battle takes place.
Pacquiao anyway have agreed with the blood test and give a cut-off, and a test also can be conducted right after the fight. Theres no problem on him. Just asking for a cut-off so he could have time to recover after the blood test..
Nixon and Jive, Lennox Lewis was a massive, huge man. Really a super heavyweight, but he didn’t just rely on being big, he was also an athletic and masterful boxer. He was a great, tested champ who beat Vitali Klitchko, Holyfield and other proven warriors. I just wouldn’t put him on my top ten or 20. I have much respect for him and he is a talented boxer. I just don’t see him on a GOAT list. Thanks for stopping by.
I do really agree with u jude anthony..
PACQUIAO is the GREATEST BOXER EVER EXIST ON PLANET!!!
you know the secret of pacquiao MR. Druhepkin??
SPEED + AMBIDEXTROUS POWER PUNCH + SCIENTIFIC STRATEGY + GOOD HEART = MANNY PACQUIAO!!!
thats the things werein mayweather doest posses this formula... he a boastful athletes..stupid boxer..
Although I most certainly do not agree with you that Manny Pacquiao is the best boxer to ever exist, I do think he is a great fighter and I love to watch him. I love his guts, tenacity, and willingness to bring the fight. Definitely looking forward to the Mosley fight even though Mosley should start thinking about hanging up the gloves after this. I also don’t agree with you about Mayweather. He’s not a stupid boxer, he’s one of the smartest who outsmarted and outmaneuvered everyone he fought. This is turning into a Yankees vs Red Sox situation lol. Although most ppl seem to think so, you don’t have to discredit Mayweather to be a Pacquiao fan. They’re both great fighters. Thanks for stopping by Alvin.
this nonesense crazy list..
MANNY PACQUIAO is the Greatest Boxers Ever evolved in Boxing Sports..
Majority of boxing fans..boxing press..boxing community.. for sure will agree on me!
ricafort 44, anytime you read something like "MANNY PACQUIAO is the Greatest Boxers Ever evolved in Boxing Sports.?" I know exactly what I'm dealing with.
No offense but I'm pretty sure Pacquiao is the only boxer "ever evolved in the history of the boxingest and very bestest of best boxers" that you know anything about.
Members of the modern day saints of Pacquiao cult don't bother me at all and I think it's great for boxing to have a spark. I personally know how great it is and feels to be a fan of someone or something. But It does start to get annoying though when you guys start storming legitimate boxing GOAT rankings and boxing sites with absolutely nothing else to discuss but how awesome Pacquiao's awesomeness is, how he should be crowned the best boxer in the history of boxing---forever, and oh yeah Mayweather is stupid.
If people put this kind of fervor into social activism, environmental issues, or men like Gandhi or Martin Luther King this world would be a better place.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by ricafort 44
Very good list druhepkins. I also enjoy your comments, hilarious lol. I love Pacquiao too but I also respect Mayweather. Good is good and you can't take that away from him, and he's undefeated. I do think ppl are taking the Paquiao worship a little too fanatical and crazy.
Anyway, what's your prediction for the Pacquiao/Mosley fight
Hello good list and I would like to ask you since you seem to understand boxing very good why is do alot of pepole consider Evander Holyfield a better boxer then Lennox Lewis even though Lennox Lewis beat him.
Thank you KOking 87. Glad you appreciate the hub. Again, I usually steer clear of predictions but----I'd say Pacquiao in a 12 round decision. I don't see either of them dropped by KO but it depends on which Mosley shows up. If it's the one that abused Margarito then its a fight. And if this was pre-2004, I'd never in my right mind pick Pacquiao over Mosley---but this is a different Pacquiao and an older Mosley. This is a Pacquiao that can take the best shots from welter weights and keep coming. Mosley will definitely hurt Pacquioa, but Paqcuioa has so much left in the tank these days that he just might inundate Mosely with punches and take the fight. But I'm not counting Mosely out; Paquiao's fighting old guys on the cusp of retirement with big names---it could back fire. Mosely hurts people and you usually have to brawl to beat him. We'll see---this might be a good one.
Thanks for stopping by man
Hey Mike,
Firstly, they’re both great, tested champions. Both these guys deserve respect and they were a few of the last class of heavyweights when the division was still alive and kicking.
But Lennox’s win over Holyfield isn’t necessarily a reason to rank him above Holyfield believe it or not. When fighters retire, you have to look at the whole resume and analyze when they fought who they fought. For example, Kevin Mcbride beat Mike Tyson but that doesn’t mean a damn thing whatsoever. He bills himself as the “Tyson Conquerer”, but the real Tyson obviously wasn’t even in the ring that night. Anyway, Lennox was top dog during a time when Tyson and Holyfield weren’t the men they used to be, and Holyfield beat Tyson when Tyson was not the Tyson of old, but still more of a threat than when Lewis fought him. Holyfield had a few undisclosed health problems and was starting lose dominance. Lewis sort of lucked out better than Holyfield with timing. They both reached the mountain top, but Holyfield’s side of the mountain had just a few more bumps. The outcomes could’ve been different if Lewis fought Holyfield and Tyson at different times.
Anyway, its not exactly my opinion---I respect them both and I’d have to look deeper, but I’m mainly just explaining why ppl would rank Holyfield above Lewis. It is very sound reasoning. Thanks for stopping by man.
I agree with the list except I believe you left out two very important people. What about hands of stone Roberto Duran, the name speaks for itself. Least we forget the Golden Boy. You cant forget about Oscar. Thats my favorite fighter of all time. I honestly do not feel that he got whooped from floyd back in 2007, i felt it was even.
Hey Mathew Castro,
You're absolutely right about Duran, and I would put him on my pound for pound top ten list----but in the first paragraph it explains that this list is also about boxing popularity, cultural impact, etc. Duran is fav for most boxing fans who know and love the sport. How I calculated my criteria he didn't make the 10 spot cut. I couldn't move any of these guys for 10 completely different reasons. I may make an honorable mention spot for him.
As for the Mayweather/Dela Hoya fight, Dela Hoya clearly got outclassed to the careful eye. Sometimes a fighter looks very busy and puts on the pressure. For that reason alone, he may win rounds. But it was clear, especially when played back, that Dela Hoya wasn't actually hitting Mayweather. He couldn't catch him and land anything clean. Mayweather was too elusive for him. Mosley did a better job of popping Mayweather a few times with clean, round changing blows even though it was mainly done in one glory round in a fight he clearly lost.
In contrast, Mayweather kept smacking Dela Hoya with clean skin flapping blows. There's no way you could give that fight to Dela Hoya. Dela Hoya wanted to punch it out but Mayweather wouldn't let him. Dela Hoya was still ready to fight and it was a good effort, but Mayweather went the boxing technician route and was the better guy.
Thanks coming by Matthew---and Duran will be up soon
Yeah I do agree with you, during the De la hoya/Mayweather fight he was moving fast and landing more shots.Glad to see that Duran will be up soon.Was wondering who do you like in the up and comers. I've seen some fights from Chavez jr.I really like his style. I wonder of you'll ever make a top 10 list of the best fights/ rivalries. I love the trilogy between Paquio and El terrible Erik Morales. Juan Manuel Marquez and Morales. Cannot forget Meldrick taylor and julio cesar chavez. What are some of your favorite fights.
Hello long time no see I see alot of people have been commeting. Well I been looking up some fighters and I nobody mentoined Gene Tunney who beat Jack Dempsey and Pernell Whitaker who beat Chavez and some people think is better then Chavez but what do you think
I'm liking Andre Ward, Martinez, Berto and Gamboa. The welterweight and middleweight divisions are loaded with talent. Chavez Jr.'s just ok to me. he's a name, business and he's protected and he doesn't fight anyone important.
The rivalry thing is a great idea and I was considering it. Much harder to do though. It's in the works. I think the Ali/Frasier/Foreman fights were boxing magic.We won't have those days again anytime soon. From Ray Robinson to the Gatti trilogy----Hearns/Leonard, there are just so many to mention it's for me hard to single a fav. I rarely have a favorite anything but I'll think about it. Thanks for stopping by Matthew
yeah man I could see it being hard to pick the 10 best rivalries. So you think the fight between Erik morales and marquez is going down in APRIL. I heard about it and can only imagine how good of a fight that could be.
Hey there Gary,
I think Whitiker was in fact a better "boxer" than Chavez as far as talent, but Chavez was "tougher" and a greater legend more relevant to his country and the sport.
The exact same with Dempsey and Tunney. Dempsey had a long reign and was a staple in boxing, but Tunney just had his number. Just like Tarver/Jones. Jones was the more decorated fighter who had his reign, but Tarver had Jones' number. Tarver isnt better than Jones though and his feats aren't more impressive than Jones.
Keep coming around man.
hey drup,
what can you say about match-up between Marquez and Mosley?. do you think its a good bout so that marquez can prove that he is qualified to fight pacquiao??
Hello thanks for answering my earlier question and I wpuld like to ask why do you think about Amir Khan and do you think he has a chance of beating Pacquiao if they fought.
#5 Mike Tyson. Lets be a little more real. There is not a HW boxer in history that could beat 19 year old Mike Tyson. Say what you want, ive watched thousands upon thousands of fights, and let me tell you. Tragically Mike Tyson lost his edge due to bad life choices due to the loss of his mentor. He was gonna be the greatest HW of all time. Sux huh!
That said, no one can beat Pac Man at this point in time, especally Kahn. Pac will make him look bad, Kahn said it, he fought a European fighter last night. He was made to look good. Manny would destroy Kahn bad. I bet Kentucky Floyd chicken would want to fight Kahn, due to the buzz generated by his win and his record, and Floyd would put on a good show and win, and continue to duck Manny.
@ druhepkins. Ya know, Manny is just lucky to not have any other great rivals in boxing right now. It should be Floyd, but we are deprived. Hearns, Hagler, Lenord, Chavez, ect... Who does Manny have to loose to, then rematch and win @ his weight? Do not be mad at the fans, be mad at floyd for not knocking him down a notch, or just trying to expose him in some way no one ever has.
hello to all fans of the boxing world!!!!!!!!!!!
Pacquiao Mosley fight prediction
I can see Manny knocking Shane Mosley out. He would be the first and the only boxer to do it. If Mosley fight toe to toe with Pacquiao he would surely go down! I disagree with the prediction of druhepkins, i want you to watch and witness how Pacquiao put Mosley down to the canvas. You will see how great he is!..
Hey Lory.
Marquez and Mosley would be a great fight. Mosley seems to be the litmus test, go to guy. If you could beat Mosley or at least give a great fight, you’re in. I really don’t think it would happen, but if Marquez beat Mosley, then he would deserve another shot at Pacquiao. He would definitely make his point.
And hey there Mike. I think Amir Khan is a very talented fighter. His confidence got shaken a bit, but he’s back. As far as beating Pacquiao, I don’t think so because Pacquiao is in another dimension these days. HOWEVER, he did rock Pacquiao in a sparring session. Freddie Roach even admitted it so who knows.
What’s up Patrick P. I’m not mad at Pacquiao at all and I understand what you’re saying. Pacquiao is standing alone and he and Floyd should’ve fought. Again, it’s not Floyd’s decision not to, it’s Manny decision not to take a drug test. That’s the reality of the situation. I don’t blame either boxer or love or hate the other. They both made a stance and stuck to and each are equally to blame.
And hello to you so Pantera…thanks for coming by.
druhepkins, what can you say if Pacquiao knockout Mosley? How would you see Pacquiao if he stop Mosley being the only boxer to do it?.. And Mosley is in very good shape today he had trained so hard for this fight.
hi druph, how about Barandon Rios versus Marquez??..do you think its a good match-up in lightweight?..can you give prediction who will win?
This Pacman fever makes me laugh...Years from now he won't be on anyone's list..Is he good ? yes, Is he great ? not a chance
Mayweather will make Manny look stupid come fight night..And yes there will be a fight night.
stop posing it..if you one-sided postures to Boxer..your idiot
Hey Ivan86,
Of course that would be a huge credit and feather in his cap if Pacquiao knocks Mosley out---but he didn't. I never jump the gun and I take things as they come. It should be a good one. They both brawl but Manny's got the speed. A Paquiao win by KO? Not betting on that
What's up there Brentt
Marquez-Rios: That should be a great fight. Marquez is definitely the better boxer and he should win. However, I’m concerned with Marquez’ age and Rios comes with a lot of power and pressure.
Rios’ ace card is that he can take any punishment and keep going, and he hits hard. Pain doesn’t seem to stop him and he hurts people. If Marquez is too old, we’ll find out and he’ll get hurt. Sometimes a fighter finds out in the ring that he just can’t do the same things. They can still beat alot ppl, but a few fighters will make them look old.
Like Dela Hoya against Pacquiao. Pacquiao was never gonna be able to hurt or KO Dela Hoya, but Dela Hoya had no pop or the ability to do anything against a fighter as fast as Pacquiao anymore. He was Frankenstein just getting hit. And Roy Jones Jr. clearly was the more talented fighter, but you saw his time was up against Tarver.
If Marquez’ age is finally a factor, Rios can out slug him. Even drop him. If Marquez is the same old Marquez however, I expect him to outbox Rios.
Thanks for stopping by ARW,
It would definitely be great for boxing and both fighters for Pacquiao to fight a guy like Mayweather when they both sharp and ready. He's coasting on a lot of oldies but goodies, but I agree they're not great litmus tests for his caliber and the caliber of mega-fighter his camp wants to potray.
I agree that a Mayweather or even a Gamboa is something we can get a lot out of seeing him do. Ali had to come back in his 30's and fight a 24 year old George Foreman monster, and he did it,rope-a doped him and snatched the belt again. That's stuff let's you know plenty.
Thanks for coming by
Hey tang ina mo,
You might want to make it clear who you're talking to and what you mean.
Thanks for stopping in anyway.
If the dream fight for Mayweather vs Pacquiao happens and Pacquiao beat Mayweather, would Pacquiao now be qualified in your top 10 GOAT? The same as well to Mayweather if he beat Pacquiao.. And how high would you rank them in your top 10?.. Hoping a response
Hey Ivan86,
I respect your question. It's a good one. Yes I would consider Pacquiao for a GOAT if he beat Mayweather. He's done enough for popularity and single handledly sparked the sport. Beating Mayweather would be the final litmus test, fighting an undefeated champion, a man at the top of the chain as did Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Duran and all the greats. He'd have nothing left to prove. Even if he lost but gave Mayweather the fight of his life that'd be good for him.
If Mayweather beat Pacquiao, it'd do a lot for him too, but not the same way. Pacquiao's appeal and popularity is just stronger and more important to the decade. He would be bumped up significantly on all lists though. I don't think I'd put Mayweather as a GOAT but he'd forever have my respect as one of the best in boxing. PPl would still hate on him, but could never ever be denied his greatness.
8 world Championship in 8 different divisions... That makes manny Pacquiao the greatest boxer of all time.... :-) And his getting better and better.... Somebody who can surpass it is then will make him not the greatest lolz....
one more question dru. . if pacquiao beat mosley by a knockout or even just a stoppage just in case he could not floor mosley, do you think Pacquiao would have a chance of beating Sergio Martinez? For I can hear clamors of them facing each other in the future..
Hey Kickingbird,
Thanks for coming by. Pacquiao but I'm still not sure I'm sold on the GOAT thing. It's very easy to view the guy currently on top crushing through competition as the greatest. However, you have to read up on a little more boxing man. Someone not fully immersed in the sport can easily make that assumption.
Sugar Robinson fought his Jake Lamatta and schooled him. Ali fought his Frasier AND fought his Foreman and beat them both. Sugar Ray Leonard fought his big Tommy Hearns AND his Hagler and ended up beating them both. Jack Dempsey fought his Gene Tunney 2x and lost, but faced twice in epic battles---one of them being one of the the highest paid fight's in boxing history, and the fight of the century for a long time. Now that he's clearly the best, Pacquiao hasn't fought his 1 Floyd Mayweather.
Pacquiao is a force to be reckoned with, I agree, but he's still fresh skating through a loophole of aging veterans, and hyped up journeymen. Another real fight or 2, especially a Mayweather win of course, would shut everyone up and make your case. What happens in this Mosley fight could also be interesting too.
He's already proven that he's great, no ones contesting that. One of the greatest of all time in boxing history will require more nail in the coffin convincing.
Hey Ivan86,
If he beats Mosley very convincingly, he would have to move up to a Martinez or Mayweather by demand because there'd be no where else to go unless he fights one of the younger talent like Gamboa, Berto, Ortiz or Bradley. No more old guys or exhibitions. The ppl would want prime time or bust. If he beat Martinez he could retire and he wouldn't need Mayweather anymore though.
I don't think he should fight Martinez if I were him though. Would I love to see it---hell yeah! But it's dangerous. Martinez may be too big, powerful, athletic and talented for him to surpass this time. Martinez is a middleweight. He's got too much power and athleticism and I just don't see Manny escaping unscathed. I knew he'd beat Dela Hoya. I knew he'd beat Margarito. But definitely not Martinez. He, like Martinez is a little older, but there both in their prime.
Paqcuiao definitely has the speed advantage, but there is no way in hell Pacquiao is knocking out Martinez and he might get hurt. If Martinez doesn't KO Paqcuiao, it could end in a decision, and that could spell bad news. I'd really like to see that fight but it's risky.
Very good list, and as you said is open to interpretation and debate.
One i feel is worth consideration:
Sugar Ray Leonard - He was champ during possibly the toughest era in boxing history with the likes or Duran, Hagler, Hearns and others.
Martinez is just as big as Mosley, but he's just a little bit heavier.. If Pacquiao could knock or stop Mosley that means he have proven he could stop even the thoughest guy to knock out in he sport. He has that power. Could not it be a possibilty that he could also stop Martinez? Anyway thank you so much for answering my previous questions...
I think the comments about Marciano are bullshit. The guy was as tough as hell and fought some magnificent fights in an era where great fighters fought. 49 fights undefeated, he's the best and he was a true gentleman loved outside the ring so he had appeal. If he lived longer more people would praise him. He died young so has been forgotten a little. I also think alot of opinion polls are based on the we can't vote a white guy shite. PC bullshit. American Italian white male was the best fighter ever in the ring and his name was Rocky Marciano.
Still think he would have beat Ali whom I adore also. As goes Tyson if he fought Ali in his prime, he would win in my view.
Very sad druph, MOSLEY IS VERY COWARD AFTER HE RECIEVE PUNCH FROM PACQUIAO ON THE 3rd ROUND.. I WAS VERY DISSAPONTED WITH MOSLEY...HES NOT A BOXER,.HES A RUNNER!! GOSHHHH!!
WHAT IS YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT PACQUIAO-MOSLEY FIGHT??
This is perhaps the best list ever compiled. Mohammed Ali is either number One or Number Two and this is rightly captured by your list. You were also very fair on Mike Tyson. If he had received some good advice or had listened to some good advice, he would have ended up the best of all times. Good work man.
Hey BishBashBosh,
Thanks for stopping by and thanks for the compliment. Leonard is awesome who filled a hole after Ali. I'd definitely have him in a top 20 but not a top ten. There's just a few guys in front of him like Duran. Thanks for coming by and thanks for the compliment.
And hey there Ivan86,
And that's the difference between Mosley and Martinez besides size. Mosley is done and Martinez is still in his prime fighting better than ever. Different expectations entirely. Pacquiao would have trouble.
Hey Lee Middleton,
I agree, Marciano was a gentleman and a great guy. However, I don't think you'll be able to convince any professional boxing analysts that he was the best of all time. There's just no way. 85% of his fights were nobodies all from Boston. The rest were in their late 30's and 40's.
If he was in the next few generations of boxing you would have seen a different tale. There'd be guys just as aggressive and tough as he was like Frasier. There'd be guys 2x his size and even stronger than he was like Foreman, and Norton. And of course guys that would give him a boxing lesson like Ali. I hear you, understand how you feel about him but he's just not the best of all time man.
Hey there Doms,
I agree, I was pretty disappointed with the fight.You gotta give Mosley a break though, he's an old man of 39 years old. He's done. Plus there's only so many fights you can take at that age. He's not the Mosley of 10 years ago.
His only shot was to try and win the fight in 3 rounds or less, corner Pacquiao in and just throw bombs at him like mad because he's still stronger. He didn't do that. There's no way he'd be able to stay at Paqcuiao's pace so he decided to keep away and box. That's all he could do really. He didn't want to trade blows with Pacquiao because Pacquiao would outwork him and overwhelm him.
It's not just Mosley, to be fair it was Hatton, Dela Hoya and Margarito too. Freddie Roach knew what would happen which is why they picked them. These old legends were ripe for the picking---for Pacquiao that is, not just anyone. They're old and they'll never keep up if they don't knock him out.
Thanks for stopping by man.
Srsly you want say Roy Jones didnt make it in your top 10 p4p , and u have there floyd mayweather jr... this is joke. And M. Tyson 5th in G. boxers of all time? Bad joke.
I think you might be reading the wrong list Orchoose because Mayweather isn't on this list. And again with Tyson, people in China and Japan were playing Mike Tyson's Punch Out and watching his cartoon in the 80's and still probably don't know who Roy Jones Jr. is. Read the criteria for this list above. Roy Jones Jr. is a great champion that owned the 90's. There are many awesome fighters, and every body has a personal fav, but unfortunately not everyone can crack a top ten.
Thanks for stopping man
i believe pacquiao can take the punches of Martinez, and Martinez would not have an easy time cathing Pacquiao. I also believe pacquiao would stunned Martinez with his speedand that could be an exciting fight. Martinez could hurt Pacquiao but Pacqiao could also hurt Martinez, I strongly believe. I wanna see Pacquiao in a fight we could not predict who will gonna win. So he could cement his legacy. With mayweather out of the way, for the dream between them looks like impossible to happen he should face Martinez. This a chance for Pacquiao to prove he is one of the greatest of all time and the chance for Martinez to get the number one spot in the pound for pound lists. The only problem here is the cathweight agreement. But this one hell of a fight, what do you think?
Great Hub.... no way Mike Tyson is top 10 though....i wouldn't even have him in top 50.... who was the best fighter he beat?
Razor Rudduck, BoneCrusher Smith, an undersized Spinks... no way top ten... great job though...excellent read
i believe Pacquiao can take the punches of Martinez, and Martinez would not have an easy time cathing Pacquiao. I also believe Pacquiao would be stunning Martinez with his speed and that could be an exciting fight. Martinez could hurt Pacquiao but Pacquiao could also hurt Martinez, I strongly believe. I wanna see Pacquiao fighting in a fight we could not predict who will gonna win, so he could cement his legacy if he wins. With Mayweather out of the way, (for the dream fight between them looks like impossible to happen) Pacquiao should face Martinez. This a chance for Pacquiao to prove he is one of the greatest of all time and the chance for Martinez too to steal the number one spot in the pound for pound lists and boost up his legacy in boxing history. The only problem here is the cathweight agreement. But this one hell of a fight, what do you think?
I must agree with Ivan86, Pacquiao has the chance to beat Martinez. Martinez has been down several times even at this point of his prime. Pacquiao was never been knockdown anymore by the time he step up in fatherweight until today. Pacquiao will beat Martinez with the speed but Martinez is the most talented and athletic fighter Pacquiao would face. Yes, it would be very dangerous for Pacquiao but this fight would also be very dangerous for Martinez. The cathweight where they will be fighting is the crucial point here. Pacquiao cannot go up to 155 and Martinez cannot go down below 150. But this Fight would be very exciting the world havent seen for a long time. If Pacquiao still win this he will not gonna need Mayweather anymore. The world would still recognize him as the greatest fighter they have ever seen. And if Mayweather wants to reclaim his legacy he should step up and face Pacquiao before the dream fight becomes really a dream forever.
Hey there Perry Frimpong. Thanks so much dude. I know boxing very well and put a lot of thought and research into the list man. Glad you appreciate it.
What's up Jake Robinson and thanks for the compliment.
As for Tyson, he's on here primarily because of the phenomenon that he was. There are a lot of other factors in being on this list that you can see above. With that considered you have to agree there is no other Mike Tyson. Read the stats above too. He has records and unprecedented achievement done by no one else. Thanks for stopping by man.
Hey there Ivan86 and welcome back jude anthony. The difference between Martinez and the other old guys Pacquiao's been fighting is that Martinez is still in his prime, athletic and strong. Pacquiao gets over because he can outlast those guys with speed, aggression and stamina.
Martinez isn't going to get blown out by Pacquiao’s pressure; he'll respond to it and hurt him. It’s a risky fight, trust me guys. Even if Margarito or Mosley had enough youth and stamina left to take a round, they’d hurt him, but they didn’t. Martinez is different; he’s far from done and still has power and tricks up his sleeve.
Pacquiao has yet to face a middleweight or welter weight with that kind of power that can keep the pace, and Martinez can. It’s dangerous. Martinez wouldn’t get overwhelmed like those other dudes guys, their done. Martinez is just getting into the limelight and he has things to prove. It would be tough. That’s all I’m saying guys. I wouldn’t be too quick to write Martinez off. He still has the glow like he wants it, he’s not scared of it, and he’s ready for it. As a former athlete I know that look. Martinez is a fight guys.
Yeah, a Pacquiao Martinez fight is a very dangerous fight for Pacquiao. But Martinez is the one who could give us a fight we've been waiting to see against the most exciting fighter in the world (Pacquiao). As Ivan86 have said, Pacquiao will be in a fight we couldn't predict who will gonna win. Isn't that exciting? We are not saying here Pacquiao would dominate Martinez in a fight, what we are trying to initiate is that Pacquiao has a fight with Martinez. It would not be an easy fight on both of them. We could see two of the best boxers at their prime proving with each other who is greater with them in todays time.
Excellent list and wonderful information about these greatest boxers of all times. No doubt all have unique features to be in the list but Muhammad Ali is the greatest of all of them as far as his charismatic personality is concerned. Thanks.
What do you think of a Pacquiao Marquez 3rd match? Would it be significant in Pacquiao's carrer? And who would you think is the best opponent for Pacquiao not to mention Mayweather.
Hey guys, sorry for the lateness. And thanks so much gajanis! And your right, there is nothing like Ali in boxing---truly one of a kind.
And judeanthony, that's exactly what we need right now, and what launch Pacquiao right into getting the respect of the great ones. We don't need him to fight the old guys, or journeyman anymore. We need a Mayweather or Martinez. When you are the best of the best, you have to pony up for the fans and for your legacy. Ali did, Robinson did it, Leonard did and now its Pacquioa to become legend if he wants to. He needs a super fight. And the fans deserve it.
Hey Ivan86,
A Paqcuiao, Marquez fight would great to watch again to be honest. But it may not mean much unless Marquez has a huge upset. They used to be equals, pacquiao edging out the wins---but this isn't the same Pacquiao. Pacquiao has definitely increased his size, strength and abilities post 2004. Not good for Marquez. Marquez may be in trouble. However, I never rule out a man who's been so close, has a chip on his shoulder, or something to prove. If nothing else is on the table, sure, I'd definitely like to see the fight.
If Pacquiao doesn't fight Mayweather and BELIEVE ME he should, he should fight Martinez. If not Martinez he should try to beat up on the new class of respected welterweights like Bradley, Berto, or Ortiz. Even if he doesn't make a super fight, he would go out with uncontested respect beating those guys.
And thanks dude btw, fixed it. All clear.
I believe Marquez is the last chance of Mexico to beat Pacquiao. Pacquiao have destroyed all the best of Mexico, their greats and their legends. They have all tried but all of them failed. Only one mexican have ever beat Pacquiao, that man is Morales but later he avenged it with a stunning knockout in their rematch and a more devastating punishment in their third fight. Pacquiao is the only man who ever knockdown/knockout Morales ligitimately. He even beat the giant Margarito which regarded to be the fight of David and Golliat in boxing.
Hey whats up druhepkins I wanted to ask you what do you think of Hopkins and do you think you would include him in a top 20 greatest boxers of all time since he became the oldest man to win a title. Just wondering
What's up JudeAnthony. Marquez was that close and could've done it in pre 2004 and Morales did do it, but couldn't back it up in the rematches. I just think Manny's a run away train at this point.
And hey Gary. Hopkins definitely gets special recognition but maybe not for top ten or 20. He beat some the best but also took some losses that would set him back. Plus there are guys like Hearns, Haler who had more memorable and historic rivaleries. He still gets his respect for sure.
after reading the comments I still have to dispute the Tyson ranking. Yes I remember what a sensation he was back in late 80's really early 90's but do you remember all the other sensations we have had (Holms was huge, so was Foreman, and Leonard.) If Tyson affected culture so much why is an autobiography by Sugar Ray Leonard gaining more attention now than anything Tyson could do? What about Foreman and his Grill? He was winning championships when Tyson was in diapers and was still winning them when Tyson was past his prime. I will grant the fact that in his prime Tyson was deadly, but you have to maintain that, and he did not. He was in a video game (by the way other boxers had video games Tyson just managed to get in a good one)... which was really a sequel to a popular arcade version which did not have Tyson, and he was removed from it later on. Your main justification, according to your own posts, for Tyson is his cultural impact, yet I see boxers with just as much cultural impact (Foreman) who do not make the list. Boxers with more lasting power (Foreman, Holms, Leonard, Holyfield) and/or more titles (De La Hoya, Leonard) I am sorry but I respect the top 3 and most of the rest while there can be quibbles about precise placement would be withing 10 slots for almost anybody of where you placed them, but Tyson ... is way way lower, even by your own criteria.
Hey the varker, Thanks for stopping by and contributing to the page. And sorry for the delayed response.
Anyway, I really don’t see how my criteria support your argument. I think my criteria more than settles his case so I’ll reiterate a few points: Again, Tyson still is the youngest heavyweight champ of all time. He was number 1 at 19 years old and won the belt just after his 20th birthday. He also became the youngest, the 1st, AND only heavyweight to unify all of the belts at the same time. Regardless what you think of him, he fought all the champs with belts and won. He’s permanently inked in the record books for this achievement. Tyson’s impactful emergence into the sport under Cus D’amato wasn’t just a big hype show, it was real.
And again, the pop culture factor was also unprecedented. And Sugar Ray Leonard’s autobiography “getting more attention than anything Tyson could do” is just incorrect----so false. He’s still one of the most mentioned boxers in movies and songs, especially hip hop songs----and what other boxer do you know of that had a video game, comic books and a cartoon running simultaneously---oh and while he was undefeated holding all heavyweight belts? The answer is “none”. Both Foreman and Leonard are in my 11-20 list. But Tyson had a moment in boxing in which hardly any other boxers were discussed.
As far as impact, most of Tyson’s first 20 fights were first round knock outs. He became the lineal camp of all the belts, knocking out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds---another record. No one else came into the sport like that which is why his legend and fear factor in the sport went the way it did. He had the biggest fear factor in boxing history. His fear factor was so intense, when he fought Buster Mathis, Mathis tried to hold on to him deathly afraid to let him go. Boxers were petrified of him.
Even when he was done, he still shocked the world with controversy among his losses. This is the main reason he’s here. Tyson is a unique, talked about staple in boxing. And no, this isn’t just a pound for pound list. All these things are considered, Tyson belongs.
It’s a classic case of psychology: because of the pedestal he’s been put on in his meteoric rise to dominance, he’s now being written off and discredited more than any other boxer because of his disappointing and embarrassing exit out of the sport and loss of heart. Because this super hyped fighter fell to pieces, his achievements are now being reduced, overlooked, and he’s now being called a bum. Let me remind you again, Tyson is a 2 time Olympic Gold medalist who became Heavyweight champ unifying all belts at 20. The 1 one and only boxer to ever knock out Larry Holmes.
You saw it in his eyes that he was afraid and didn’t want to fight. His heart was not there when he fought Holyfield and Lewis. Tyson has been constantly used and tricked---and even spent 3 years in jail during his prime ages. He spent 3 years in the can for “raping” a girl who falsely cried rape in the past, but for some reason they didn’t admit that tidbit of info in court. Do you know what 3 years in a cage can do to a man mentally, especially on trumped up charges? He was released in 1995 and he was already fighting soon as he got out, and fought Holyfield early in 96??? A victim of horrible management that didn’t care about him, who just wanted him in the ring ASAP for the money. Even though he just walked out of prison, he still snatched the WBC and the WBA belts by KO and was lined up to fight Holyfield. Way too quick. He was also screwed and divorced from his wife and she got some cash too. He was screwed royally by Don King, trainers, managers and the list goes on. Left in the hands of scoundrels, Tyson was broken, tired and unstable. His fall from grace was pretty bad, but completely understandable. The Lewis and Holyfield camps were opportunists.
We may agree to disagree on this one, but I can’t be swayed away from Tyson on this issue. He may not be your ideal hero, but he’s a boxing stand out no matter what.He deserves to be right where he is.
Mayweather vs Ortiz.. Do you think this fight would mean a Mayweather vs Pacquiao possible in the near future? Is this some sort of Mayweather's preparation against the Pacman? And if it is, does Mayweather got the right guy to prepare to a Pacquiao fight?.. Thanks
A couple of comments about this thread:
1) I don't have any issue with the real Sugar Ray, Joe Louis, and Muhammad Ali occupying the top three spots. The order could be disputed but no great injustice is done. One of the most impressive items about Joe Louis is who he lost to: Max Schmeling, Ezzard Charles, and Rocky Marciano - HOFers all. The losses also occurred before and after his prime.
2) Rocky Marciano's early career had some soft opponents but who didn't the Rock fight during his career? Had Marciano continued fighting, he probably had 4-5 more years of clear sailing. I don't see anyone prior to the emergence of Sonny Liston or Cleveland Williams who would have beaten Marciano.
3) Roberto Duran deserves to be on this list. I haven't seen a better fighter than a prime-time Roberto Duran. For all his greatness, I don't see Chavez beating Duran (and I think that most fight experts agree). Not only was he a better fighter than Chavez but Duran was more of a cultural icon, IMO. Duran was much better known to the non-fight fan than Chavez ever was - the street urchin turned into legendary fighter of tremendous ferocity made a compelling story.
4) Tyson was an impressive fighter but only for awhile. I think that longevity must count for something. Of course, his career was interrupted by his prison term but the cracks were already starting to show. Buster Douglas (later confirmed twice by Holyfield and also by Lewis) showed the Tyson had some heart issues. That flaw was disguised by the ferocity of the early Tyson but would have shown up against other great fighters. Ali, Holmes, Louis, Foreman, Marciano, and others wouldn't have quit when the going got tough. In a battle of wills, Tyson gives up. I think that Holyfield saw this flaw early and would have exploited it against Tyson anytime once Holyfield grew to a solid heavyweight. Personally, I see Holyfield/Tyson like Tunney/Dempsey. Tyson and Dempsey might rate higher on a GOAT list (given the criteria you laid out) but would be consistent losers to Holyfield and Tunney (respectively) in the ring.
5) I think that some of the lighter weight fighters deserve more consideration: Reuben Olivares, Sandy Saddler, Eder Jofre, Pascual Perez, Wilfredo Gomez, Salvador Sanchez, Carlos Zarate, etc.
Hey there, clint ivan.
I think the Mayweather Ortiz fight was a great bawlsy fight for Mayweather. And you’re right, I think his camp is trying to out maneuver Pacquiao by picking fights that force Pacquiao in a different direction. Instead of fighting old has beens that are definitely bigger and stronger, but slower, the Mayweather camp decided to fight a hot, young fresh and powerful contender within the weight class. Ortiz is a young tough fighter who just eclipsed one of the best up and coming welterweights out there in Andre Berto---and I was very impressed. Now Ortiz is top of the list and Mayweather signed on for first dibs. And if he wins, it’d be a hard next move for Pacquiao. If Pacquiao had to fight Ortiz, that would be a rough fight for him. If they (Mayweather/Pacquiao) won’t fight each other, this is a battle for supremacy. If Mayweather beats Ortiz, he just pulled all of the chips to back to his side of the table. Pacquiao will have no choice but to fight another dangerous, young up and comer like Berto or Ortiz, or submit to the drug test and finally give us the fight the world is waiting for. I think Ortiz is a tough fight and great pick. Great move. I can’t wait to see it.
Thanks for coming by man.
Hey there Commercecomet, thanks for coming by. You made some good points---point by point so I’ll respond in the same fashion.
1) Yes, everyone usually agrees with the first 3, regardless of order. It just depends on criteria. And Joe Louis’ loss to Schmeling was the only loss in his prime. The other losses were post retirement and he was there to pick up a check.
2) As for Marciano, that’s just it, tough fighter but he was sailing. No real threats in their prime for him. Plus he didn’t stick around too long either. He beat up on guys in their late 30’s and 40’s, be he himself only gave 7 years and retired at 32.
3) I disagree with you a great deal about the Chavez, Duran thing---and it’s hard for me being a Duran fan. No doubt Duran was a great fighter deserving of acclamation and consideration of the best of the best, not questioning that. Duran may even have been able to beat Chavez too. But Chavez is definitely more well known and culturally significant, which is why he’s there and Duran leads off the pack in the 11-20 bunch. Chavez is also a 6 time World Champion.
Even as a small experiment, I asked a bunch of non boxing fan friends who Duran is and who Chavez is----none knew of Duran and they all heard of Chavez. Easy to see why you’d put Duran first as would many, but really analyzing the 2 based on the criteria here, Chavez is in front. Besides I only find myself debating Duran with real boxing fans, boxing nerds, and boxing diehards. The boxing community acknowledges him and respects him, but he’s not on the culturally significant or popular level as some as the others posted here. Mexico is known for producing tenacious, noteworthy fighters and Chavez tops that list.
4) As far Tyson, we easily forget that these guys are just people and they need the same things we do. His life fell apart, including his money and he just spent 3 years in prison. He shouldn’t have been in the ring so soon. No one even considered if he was ok before scheduling fights. If Tyson was mentally healthy, he would’ve stayed in those fights long enough to drop them. Instead, Tyson was a medicated train wreck who needed time off, therapy and a new camp. If Tyson had Emanuel Steward or Freddie Roach, I guarantee he would’ve came off better, or he wouldn’t be in that thing when he was.
5) Those are some great fighters you mentioned, but who on the list would they replace? Armstrong? Dempsey? Jack Johnson? This isn’t a pound for pounder---many of those fighters are internationally respected great fighters, but they don’t have the same draw and cultural appeal as many of those listed here which is important to the list. For many decades in boxing history, the lighter classes just didn’t get the same attention and exposure.
Not to pat my own back, but I recognize true boxing fans concerns and opinions and respect for statistics, as well as the significance of global appeal, back story, popularity, and cultural significance and think I did a decent job blending it all with a solid list that considers all of these elements. If not, guys like Larry Holmes and Sam Langford would be on top ten lists. Regardless, I appreciate your arguments and contribution on my page, and I agree with many of it, but also understand my reasons and careful deliberation behind each of my choices.
Thanks for coming by
Druhepkins,
Thanks for your reasoned responses. I didn't always agree but they made sense.
Concerning Duran-Chavez, don't you think some of the difference you observed is due to the time element? If you asked non-fight fans about Carlos Ortiz or Ike Williams, you'd get back a blank stare even though on their best days they would have given Duran and Chavez fits. In their day, they were quite well known and Ortiz was a national hero on the level of Duran or Chavez. Chavez is much more recent and everyone has a reminder when Junior fights. On the other side, there a YouTube video that I saw of Chavez who stated that Roberto Duran was the greatest Latin fighter of all time.
You ask a hard question about who to replace on the list. You're probably right that I'm letting PFP considerations slip in a bit too much. Heavyweights have a natural advantage in the criteria that you are using since heavyweights naturally attract much more attention.
I spent a couple of hours last night on YouTube watching some fights from the 70s and 80s that I hadn't seen before: Monzon-Mundine, Briscoe-Mundine, Monzon-Naples, Duran-Cuevas, and Sanchez-Gomez. I particularly liked that last one. It's too bad that Sanchez' tragic death cut his career short - he was a treat to watch. While Sanchez really impressed me with his overall skills, I realized what a tough SOB Gomez was. No quit in him.
Keep up the good work. I'll be stopping by once in awhile.
First off, yes you deserve a pat on the back for combining such eclectic criteria to form the list. Furthermore I think Tyson is a very important boxer and deserves to be ranked high. But I still disagree, even with your criteria, especially when compared to Foreman
I have to grant you the cultural significance on Tyson. I neglected to remember the "in their era" qualifier. I think Tyson now has less cultural significance than other boxers but you are right for his short era he was huge! Lets look at the criteria.
1) Respective boxing records: Tyson does well here with his youngest champ, fast knockout, and unification of the belts ... but unification of the 3 titles has more to do with the politics of getting the title bouts not boxing ability, Foreman holds the record for oldest champion (I think a 45 year old champ is more impressive than a 19 year old champ). Even his record knockout was against a fighter who retired (did come back) and probably saw no reason to get beat up when the millions was still assured (there was even a joke about this on In Living Color).
2)boxing ability and talent: Tyson was awesome in his prime but longevity has to play a role in this and that is something Tyson did not have. Yes I know prison can mess a man up mentally, but he was already slipping before that. I admit talented, but I fail to see any more talent that Foreman, Holms, or Leonord, in fact I see less
3)popularity: At his prime huge! that gives us ... 4 year versus all the year of infamy. Foreman has been more popular all but 5 years of Tyson's life
4)competition they faced: WHAT COMPETITION! Tyson's biggest competitor was a way past his prime Holms. Look at who Foreman faced Frazier, Ali, Foreman Comes out ahead.
5)showmanship: Tyson had promoters do his showmanship for him. If you are going to blame all the people around Tyson for his boxing failures after prison then you can not give him credit for Showmanship ... especially over Foreman,
6)cultural significance in their era: complete face crush by Tyson. While I think now Foreman with his Grill and other activities has more cultural significance he clearly did not in his era.
That gives Tyson 1 criterion over Foreman ... maybe 2 with the championships. The rest go to Foreman ... wait ...I just argued why Foreman should be on the list ... not why Tyson should not ... um okay never mind leave Tyson on :)
i agree.. George Foreman is far greater than Mike Tyson and even Rocky Marciano.
Clint ivan,
I don't have an issue with someone saying that Tyson and Marciano were greater champions than Foreman. Both had longer and more significant reigns, IMO.
However, in a fight with each in their prime, I'd take Foreman over the over two. Foreman's size advantage over each would have been too much for them to overcome. Anyone who has to come to Foreman is asking for a beating. No matter how strong a fighter's chin, Foreman would batter them into submission (like he did the ultimate chin, George Chuvalo).
mike tyson has no buisness being on this list...
i think your one of pacman haters, and one of Mayweather girlfriends, because you only blaming Pacquiao for Pacquiao vs Mayweather not happening.
8 title . put pacman in the list.
Everyone has their own opinions druhepkins, but this is by far the best list I’ve seen on line. Very good job. I agree with almost everything you say, including Tyson.
You made a slam dunk case but people still don’t get it. Boxing constantly still makes reference to Tyson. They even made another reference to Tyson during the Klitchko/Haye fight saying Tyson fought harder competition and fought all the belt winners and was the clear champ unlike this confusing era with less real contenders and boring match ups. You also make it clear that this isn’t just some pound for pound list, Tyson was a boxing phenomenon---and yes he had his own damn cartoon, video game, comic books, and had a legendary presence in the ring with just his black shorts white towel and no robe. The only fighter to unify the belts, youngest, fastest KO’s etc etc etc---You nailed it and ppl just can’t seem to get things through their head these days about anything.
Great list druhepkins.
For me Pacquiao should be on the top 1 or top 2 spot because of his achievement.
Decent list Druhepkins. It’s very respectable.
@ Jan, you already sound like another member of the church of Pacquiao cult that roam around boxing fan sites to only talk about Pacquiao. I’m a realist, which means I don’t think like you, an adoring fan in mid worship who’ll accept anything his camp says. The fight was dodged because of a drug test he chose not to take for BS reasons, he hates needles etc---whatever reason, I don’t care. He was offered the biggest payout in boxing history and a whole 2 weeks before the fight in which to do Olympic style testing and he chose not to. Other than that, I have nothing bad to say about the man. Lots of boxers are juicing and he’s just another. Doesn’t affect me at all. Please don’t come around to rational boxing fans attempting to infect us with your limited boxing conversation and fanaticism. It’s very easy to believe that Mayweather, the media’s created bad guy, is to blame and the reason why the innocent and saintly Manny Pacquiao didn’t fight. Nonsense.
So druhepkins, any thoughts about the Klitchko’s and heavyweight division?
CommerceComet and thevarker, thanks for the convo and definitely keep coming back. Sound arguments from you both.
Jan, syet and Bruce Yee, I appreciate you guys coming by, but I’m not putting active boxers on the list. Also, Pacquiao’s next few fights with real contenders like Mayweather, Martinez or even Bradley would effect where he ranks among the greats once he retires. Stay tuned. And btw Jan, I agree with Jakechulo just a little, you do seem a little naïve and fanatical . Not very necessary but thanks for coming by regardless.
Thanks for stopping by Jake and Seth Mcleod. You’re support is very appreciated guys.
As for the Klitchko’s and the Heavyweights---The heavyweight division is at an all time low obviously. The Klitchko’s are very good, big and athletic, but they’re not awesome. They’re really just the best that’s out there capitalizing off of the lack of talent in the division at the moment.
David Haye is just a really good cruiser weight that’s been glorified as a heavyweight phenomenon but he’s not AT ALL. He just a good cruiser weight big enough to step up and also take advantage of the lack of talent in the division and dominate, but he was never a good match for the Klitchko’s. The Klitchkos are really “super” heavyweights; they’re too big. There are no true big men at the moment that can really force them to fight a great fight, like a Lennox Lewis. Nor are there littler guys that can work past the size and keep fight changing haymakers in their face like prime Tyson. There’s no one. The big guys left aren’t talented or athletic enough, and the little guys aren’t confident enough, aggressive, good enough or big enough. Every time Haye blasted Klitchko with a blow that stunned him, Klitchko just used his size to lean, tie him up and hold him until he got his legs back. The rest of the fight he just used his size and reach to jab, control the fight and keep him away. Very boring.
Neither fighter proved a point for respect. The Klitchko’s force all these “whatever” guys to fight their boring and predictable fight---which is use the reach to jab, keep them back and control the fight all night, and smother/hold them anytime they’re in trouble, then go for the KO when the guy is worn down or win on decision. Haye just isn’t a true heavyweight to deal with the size of the Klithcko’s and he’s not good enough to fight passed the size. The weight class is dead, uneventful and the Klitchko’s are coasting.
That's badass how you don't get mad and then you shut these guys up with your intelligence ........ That's what's up sir congrats
Thank you Miguel, I appreciate that man lol. Everyone has opinions, no need to get mad. Sounding all angry, insulting or dismissive doesn't make anyone sound any smarter. If you got a shrewd point said/written eloquently, it stands on its own authority.
Thanks for stopping by.
Hey druhepkins, what's your thoughts on mayweather vs ortiz!!!
Personally, I don't think it'll be that great of a fight. Although he did do good against berto but I still think he's no where near mayweather's levels!!! And we all saw the way he quite against maidana, and really his only real fight was with berto!!! Everybody else were no body, correct me if I'm wrong!!! But idk I don't think ortiz has a chance!!!!!!
What's up Alfonso?
Man I gotta say I agree with you, but I know when a fighter has got something down deep. Stylistically and talent wise, Frazier wasn't a better boxer than Ali, but tossed him a beating in the first fight because something down deep in him wanted it and had something to prove. Ortiz was a good, dangerous fighter who fell off a bit, but he’s back and he wants it, so he's gonna bring a fight. Mayweather is smarter, may outclass him and snatch his WBC belt, which will force Pacquiao into a position, but it's not gonna be that easy. Ortiz isn't just gonna let his 15 minutes and big pay checks go so easily.
His awesome win over Berto was a road to redemption. You don’t get too many prime time chances and he fought as if it wasn’t just a fluke, he’s refocused, has something to prove and he’ll fight his next fights hard. He'll fight Mayweather like he wants respect, don't sleep on him yet.
I respect Mayweather for booking this fight and it'll be a good one. Mayweather is in a different stratosphere and should walk away with this one, but Ortiz will make it interesting. He's hungry. I always give credit where it’s deserved. In his last fight, if Ortiz freezed up or tried to coast, Berto could’ve rallied back and won on points. However, Ortiz had one of the few fights this year in which the fighter fought hard from start to finish and closed out the show. That’s a sure sign of someone who wants it and who’ll go for it.
Thanks for stopping by.
Pacquiao has said to have agreed to take the random drug test. Do you believe the fight has a big possibilty to happen? Are you seeing the Pacquiao vs Mayweather as the fight of the decade? The greatest match up of todays time!..
For me Manny Pacquiao iz a lot better than Mayweather. Don't forget taht Pacquiao is a featherweight fighter who moved up to fight bigger opponents and knocking them out. Mayweather iz a natural welterweight who fought smaller boxers. If Mayweather can do waht pacman does move up on middleweight and fight the bigger ones! But the fact is, he can only fight fighters the size of ivan calderon. lol.
Yeah I get it, you're a mayweather fan. We all get it based on the comments above. (Apologiz for my bad english im German)
Well, you mentioned comeback so I will :) I agree heavyweight is in the doldrums. But heavyweight boxing has failed to stir me since the Hoylfield v. Bowe fights. I still remember how one of their fights drew more audience, and paid a bigger purse than the recent title fight. It is kind of sad that after a long list of continual heavy weights (those on this list plus Fraizer, Foreman, Holms, etc.) that things have gotten so dismal
on the Ortiz v Mayweather bout. Ortiz is too tough and will not give up with a title on the line so it will go the rounds but Mayweather is way to good for Ortiz to beat in decision. After all, tough boxers might win knockouts, but a skilled boxer will win the decision.
Hey Clint,
I'm not positive it will, but its a fight that really should happen. All the legend's had to fight their nemesis and pony up. I think it'd be an awesome fight because Pacquiao would force the fight and Mayweather is a master technician and counter puncher. Their differing styles make for a great fight. Also, this is one of those fights where it can't just be a close one. It'd be frustrating and wouldn't prove much. One of them would have to go the extra mile and close out the show for supremacy. Neither of them have fought anyone like the other.
I think it could happen if Mayweather stays in the game, beats Ortiz and holds a belt again. Pacquioa fighting Marquez, again another fight that's just an exhibition, doesn't need to happen, and doesn't prove anything. Eventually there will be nothing left for Pacquioa to do but retire or fight Mayweather for the fight everyone wants to see, drug test or not.
So will it happen, I hope and I think so---there's too much money and legacy riding on it for it not to happen. Will it be good----I also think so. All pacquioa's fights have some level of excitement or exciting points----including the fact that he'd have to be on his best game with Mayweather.
Hey Hans and thanks for stopping by.
I wouldn’t say I’m a Mayweather fan, but I’m a former athlete who respects excellence and gives credit where it’s due. That’s why as great as Pacquioa is, I wouldn’t call him a better “boxer” than Mayweather. From an unbiased perspective, that just wouldn’t be fair or correct. Mayweather leaves every fight without a scratch and no one ever touches him. Some of his fight footage, like his fight with Mosley should be used as a boxing clinic: constant evasion and moving completely out of the way, then nailing the opponent in the face repeatedly---all night. He’s one of the best defensive fighters with boxing skill and talent. Pacquiao is a great fighter, but he’s been hit a lot, lost a couple of fights etc. He wins nowadays impressively, but not with awesome footwork, or bobbing and weaving pretty, he wins by overpowering his opponents with speed, punch volume, stamina and power. Much respect to him, but I always call it as I see it, Mayweather is technically speaking a better boxer. Doesn’t mean Mayweather will beat him, doesn’t mean I like him more. It’s just an honest, fair, and unbiased assessment of boxing ability.
As far as fighting bigger guys, I’m never easily sold on that because I understand the sport, and I understand when fighting someone bigger means something, and when it doesn’t. Moving up to fight bigger guys is a new draw that he’s made look cool, but If you move up in weight 10-20 pounds and fight a slightly bigger guy slower than you and a lil old, you’re probably going to win. Speed always kills in the end and Freddie Roach knows that.
Hatton, Dela Hoya (who also made a classic and costly mistake with his rehydration) Margarito and Mosley were bigger and stronger, but way too slow and over the hill to ever match Pacquiao. All those bigger guys followed the same pattern for a Pacquiao win. Guys just as small and fast as Pacquiao like Marquez and Morales fared better, were able to trade blows, hurt him and knock him down.
The weight thing becomes more of an advantage with the much bigger guys---like a guy 5’10 and 205 lbs fighting a guy who’s 6’3 and 230 lbs. The more size, strength and reach a guy has over you, usually the more the advantage he has to win and the less the speed matters. But the differentiation wasn’t large enough for the guys Pacquiao fought----he ended up with the edge and advantage because of the stamina and speed. Believe me, someone like Amir Khan is way more dangerous to Pacquioa than another old big boy dependent on a KO.
So basically Hans, I’m just making a critical point from a “non-fan” perspective. They’re both great champions who keep beating whoever is thrown in front of them. However, Pacquioa has done it in a more exciting, fan friendly way, but Mayweather has done it in a more skilled, expenditure efficient way. I’m in no way calling a favorite though.
I'm a Pacquioa fan but I totally agree with you on just about all points. Your analysis on most subjects have been spot on. Great list!
Give me your opinion on where Hector "Macho" Camacho ranks.
True he did defeat Duran {twice}and a TKO over a 40 year old Sugar Ray Leonard. However, you must admit he was entertaining.
Bro i think your "unbiased" opinion is kind of biased. You say things that aren't true. You say that Manny should take a test so him and Mayweather can fight but Manny doesn't like to take the test 1 week before the fight because he has a ritual to make himself scratch free before the fight. Manny ALWAYS takes a drug test 2 or 3 weeks before the fight and takes one RIGHT AFTER ALL his fights. So even if he is beefing himself up (and im sure hes not) they can take the crown away from him IF he wins.
Secondly, what you say about him facing slower and older guys, these guys are smarter and more experienced boxers. They might not be as quikc but theyre toughness and smarts make up for it. Plus you said smaller guys have faired better but they didnt do THAT good, none of them were capable of knocking him down like you say. ALL his knockdowns were earlier in his career.
I just wanted to express the point of view of a Pacquiao fan like me, very good piece of work there, thumbs up.
Tyson and Chavez are never top 10 fighters of all time.
Thanks so much Ephraim and thanks for coming by man.
And hey Jeff,
Hector Camacho was a very good fighter when he started out. Then he got rocked and started to become too defensive and ran a lot, but was still good. He himself wasn’t a ring king, but he was one of the tough fighters in a good era of boxer who was a great gate keeper and litmus test to test the mettle of other hyped up fighters. His win over Leonard is how I feel about Roy Jones lately, it had nothing to do with Camacho’s power and everything to do with the fact that Leonard’s time was up and didn’t belong in there. Think about it, Sugar Ray Leonard, the man who beat Hagler and Hearns KO’ed in round 1 by Hector Camacho? Gotta know when to quit lest you be “Camacho’ed”.
When you’re an elite fighter like Camacho and you fight your fight, you may walk away with respectable wins like Duran. But he got sound beatings from Chavez, Trinidad, and Dela Hoya. So good fighter who is up there, but doesn’t rank up there amongst the greatest.
My list is different but i respect yours. Boxing has been around for hundreds of years. The sport has produced so many great champions who qualify for being one of the all time greats that when it comes down to all the of them you must pick your personal favorites then create your list from there.
And hey JT,
Thanks for stopping by. And sorry to take so long man.I don't like to just write anything just to respond, I wait until I have a minute to address everything you say with deliberation.
Anyway, you say I'm biased----Don’t go Tea Party on me man lol. I always end up looking like a Paquiao hater simply bcz I have to correct statements that are over blown and not true. When you say I say things that aren’t true, just to be fair and rational, be sure that your own statement is correct as well as your facts. Everything I said is 100% the truth. Read what Teddy Atlas had to say about the matter.
At the end of negotiations, everything was laid out to leave little excuses bcz promoters wanted this fight. They even gave Pacquiao an entire 2 weeks before the fight to take the Olympic style testing, 2 WEEKS –along with Mayweather doing the exact same thing. That is fact which removes your argument completely away from you. Paqcuioa’s 1 week ritual wasn’t even an issue. It was clear no matter how much money given, or how much time given before the fight, Pacquiao wasn't going to fight if he had to be randomly tested---period. And all that stuff about Manny taking tests before and after every fight is all nonsense, most likely stuff put out by fans. You have to be cautious bcz there’s a ton of that stuff out there but none of it is true. Manny follows the normal testing procedures which are a joke. The boxers and trainers know it, and get around it all the time. Just like Baseball and many other sports, you can get around the normal testing easily. Olympic style random testing is the only way to catch it but camp Pacquiao won‘t do it as long as there is no governing body enforcing a random drug test.
Towards the end of your post is where your facts just fell apart completely, saying smaller guys weren’t able to knock him down. Dude, are you aware that he has 3 losses and 2 draws, and that he was KO’ed 2x? They were small fast guys, not slow big boys that did it. And the intelligence of the bigger guys had nothing to do with it. They were past prime, slower and couldn’t keep the pace. If he fought the top bigger boys in their prime like Martinez, now that’s a different story. But Pacquiao was there to clean up and he did.
Anyway, thanks for your input and keep coming by.
Hey Chris,
Thanks for coming by man. Chavez and Tyson may not be on your list, but there are on quite a few top tens, including my own. Also, I often have to redirect ppl to re-read the criteria of this list above. Don't mistake it for a regular pound for pound, there are other factors. Plus, you might not be able to convince 80's kids boxing fans or Mexican boxing fans of your opinion.
Regardless you opinion is appreciated, thanks for stopping by.
I don't like your list too much...
My list:
1. Roberto Duran
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Joe Louis
4. Sugar Ray Leonard
5. Tommy Hearns
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Henry Armstrong
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Roy Jones Jr
10. Willie Pep
Honorable mentions: Marvin Hagler, George Foreman, Archie Moore, Salvador Sanchez...
Best p4p of this era (past 15 years):
1. Roy
2. Manny
3. Floyd
4. Calzaghe
5. Vitali
Hector beat Jose luis Ramirez to win the Lightweight title.
Two of the other champs in that division, Livingston Bramble and Jimmy Paul would not fight Hector, so that set up the fight with Ramirez. He defended the title against former Jr. Welterweight champ Cornelius Boza Edwards.Then he fought Boom Boom Mancini to win the Light Welterweight title.Then he beat Vinny Paz. Again,Bobby Chacon would not get in the ring with Hector so he fought Jr. Lightweight Rafael Limon destroying him in 5 rounds.Look how many fighters were afraid to get into the ring with Hector.As I mentioned before he went on to defeat Duran twice and destroying Leonard.I know he did become a more defensive fighter after Rosario, but still won the fight by split decision.My point is he defeated quality fighters in his prime, most former world champs. Also, Hector went the distance in every fight he had.I say he was one of the best boxers ever. Why, because the point of being a great boxer is winning..yes but, also finding a way to survive in the ring with what one would call superior competition.
brilliant list, as a few people mentioned George foreman and Joe frazier deserve a spot in this :)
even Larry holmes, as you said its all about what they represented back in the day.
any top lb for lb list that doesnt have the pac man at or near the top is no list at all. you should be ashamed of yourself for delving into an area you have very little knowledge about.
www.worldsbestathlet.net
Hey there George,
Thank you for coming by.
So you have Roberto Duran first in front of 5 time middleweight champ Sugar Ray Robinson and American legend Joe Louis?? You have Muhammad Ali 8th behind Pernell Whitaker and Tommy Hearns??? So you don’t like my list much----but I don’t like your list at all----And I like it even less than not at all posted as an addendum on my page lol.
Just poking at you and you’re free and welcome to share your opinions and post whatever you want here. But I must say, judging from your picks, I’m not the least bit surprised or offended you don’t like mine. Not there with you at all. We obviously have differing opinions and we can agree to disagree.
Thanks again and come back anytime.
Hey again Jeff,
You make a strong case for Camacho. I did say he was an elite fighter worthy of acclamation. But guys like Mayweather, Chavez and Dela Hoya sit comfortably above him so I respect him, i just don’t rank him as one of the greatest.
And again I still have to vouch for Leonard. Camacho was a great fighter, but was never known for punching KO power. Leonard went the distance with beasts like Hearns and Hagler, eating power shots all night---and won, then Camacho comes along with a fraction of the KO power and knocks the legendary Leonard out---in the 1st round??? No way. It was more because Leonard was old and finished as boxer than a meaningful win for Camacho. Sometimes younger fighters capitalize on an older boxer’s bad decision and commitment to the sport when they should’ve long hung up the gloves. Fighting Leonard 21-34 meant something. Not 41 and after a 6 year retirement lay off. Duran was still relevant---but still very old too.
I’m with you that Camacho is a great fighter and yes he was ducked. But on my list also I consider cultural significance and star power, and Trinindad quickly stole the shine and then Cotto. So Camacho has my respect as an elite fighter, but I don’t rank him a legend or GOAT. So many great fighters, its difficult and near impossible to put everybody on that level.
Hey ollyvincent1,
Thanks for coming by and thanks so much for the compliment on the list. Some of those other fighters you mentioned are on my 11-20. I always appreciate it when someone stops by to to show they approve.
Thanks again!
And where do I begin Rick Anderson, where do I begin….
First of all, all the fighters on this list have the same thing in common---THEY’RE ALL LONG RETIRED. There are no active fighters on my list. 2ndly, again, this isn’t a lb for lb list. 3rdly, many ppl (mostly fans) feel as you do, however most boxing analysts do not have him at the top of any greatest of all time lists yet. He’s definitely the talk of the town and in consideration, but the verdict is out, his career is still active and you’re ahead of yourself.
Lastly, you Rick Anderson, not I, should be ashamed of yourself for many things---including going onto boxing sites and unnecessarily spitting venom at the site host, who’s repertoire and history with the sport you know absolutely nothing about, simply because he doesn’t share your fanatical and premature opinion. I’d strongly suggest joining a church or channeling your passionate energy toward something more meaningful and positive.
Regardless, I welcome all opinions and yours is appreciated, I’d just bring it down a notch.
Hey there lcsalazar,
You said the most sensible statement which is very true. I would offer your statement over to Jeff as well because it applies. So many decades of boxing, so many great champions. Personal favs will always vary.
Thanks for stopping by and supporting my list.
Great list and very smart analizations. Also love the classy way you totally own some these guys lol. Pretty entertaining lol.
Good stuff
He may never come to mind when mentioned as one of the greatest fighters of all time.However, three criteria are
present here. Boxing record, talent and popularity.He may best be known as the man Jake LaMotta defeated for the middleweight crown in the movie Ragging Bull. His name, Marcel Cerdan.Marcel knocked out Tony Zale one of the greatest punchers in the history of boxing to take the middleweight crown.His first defense was against LaMatta. Cerdan could not answer the bell after round 10. What is not shown in actual fact in the movie is this. Marcel dislocated his shoulder in round 1 from a knock down so, he fought 9 more rounds with this injury.LaMotta was set to Defended his title against Cerdan in a second fight. That fight never took place as Cerdan was killed in a plane crash, he was only 33 years of age.
Now for the three criteria met.
Boxing record...113-4! 66 by way of knock out
Talent.. see above.
Popularity..An icon in France! Also, highly respected throughout the boxing world.
We should not let fighters such as this fade from our memories.
I respect your opinion, but Tyson and Chavez better than Duran and Leonard...c'mon man...I like both Tyson and Chavez and they are atg, but maybe you haven't watch enough of Duran and Leonard? Who would win between prime Duran and prime Chavez at 135 in your opinion?
P.S. My English is far from good for explanation of my list...
Greetings
pacman and GAYweather should meet and greet.. period.
where is kliciko?
its seems good rating, but in my openion MIKE TYSON is the best FIGHTER that the world ever seen
Dru,
Careful with the evidence you throw out there. Sugar Ray Robinson was a 5-time middleweight champion because he lost the title 4 times. Robinson was at his best as a welterweight without question IMO. I have no issue with the real Sugar Ray as the best PFP of all-time, nor as the greatest welterweight of all-time but as a middleweight he would have struggled with some of the middleweight greats. Big, rough and tumble, awkward guys like Hagler, Monzon, and Zale would have given Robinson fits and Roy Jones, Jr. might have beaten Robinson at his own game at middleweight.
It's the same with Roberto Duran and greatness primarily at one weight class. Duran was a very good fighter above lightweight but not the same terror that he was as a lightweight. The lightweight Duran of the early and mid-70s is still the best fighter I have seen.
I'm not sure that winning multiple titles at several weight classes is a sufficient condition to claim that someone is a great fighter. With so many weight classes now and so many split titles, it's not nearly as hard as it was in the days of Bob Fitzsimmons and Henry Armstrong. There are some 2-time champions walking around today that I'm not sure would have given Sugar Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong a spirited sparring session.
George, I'll answer your question. I'm pretty sure the Dru will disagree but that's what makes a forum interesting. While I really respect Chavez, after watching lots of their fights, I don't believe that there is any part of Chavez' skill set that Duran doesn't do better. Personally, I believe that a prime-time Duran would have won comfortably over a prime-time Chavez. Probably a UD in the 10-5 (if 15 rounds) or 8-4 (if 12 rounds) range.
Thank you for the compliment Eddie, and thanks for coming by man. Appreciate it.
And Jeff, I haven’t forgotten Marcel Cerdan at all. That is a very heralded, great champion. However, not as popular in the states, as well as reigning under the dominance of Sugar Ray Robinson though, which is why I wouldn’t make him a GOAT. But yes, I do recognize him as a great fighter to be remembered and compared with the best.
And hey George, I’m not sure if it’s the same George I’ve been responding to, but I just need to remind this isn’t a pound for pound. So no one is saying Chavez and Tyson are “better” than Leonard or Duran. They’re just ranked a few spots above them on this list due to quite a few things in consideration. There are longer, more detailed explanations above but in a nutshell, more people internationally and more generations know of Tyson and Julio César Chavez than Leonard and Duran, albeit fame or infamy. Those guys are duly noted on the 11-20 list though.
Hey Pinoy. Not sure what "gayweather" is but yes, Pacquiao and Mayweather is a fight that needs to happen for boxing and we'd all love to see it.
And hey there hummer. Thanks for stopping by. Where is Klitchko you ask? I think he's in Germany man lol. Wouldn't hold my breath expecting him on a GOAT list if that's what you meant and ill just assume u didnt. Klitchko's a good fighter in the age of heavyweight bums and guys half his size.
And hey sahir. Tyson was definitely a beast in his prime. He brutalized with superior speed and KO power. The best fighter the world has ever seen tho, not really. And definitely not after he fell apart. If life was a little different for him and he fought top contenders like Lewis and Holyfield in the 90s like a warrior instead of being distracted, medicated, mismanaged, jailed etc etc...then maybe we would've seen him become a boxing demigod. But he didn't leave the sport with the exclamation point he should have. He gave up mentally before the sport was finished with him so he'll always be ranked short of his true greatness and potential---or not at all.
Unlike some however, I give credit where its due and he's done enough to shake up the boxing world in his prime, and no there will not be another Tyson for a long time. Unifying the belts with stunning, quick and brutal knock outs was sensational. Thank you for coming by though. For a long run in the 80s and early 90s many including myself would be close to agreeing with u.
Okay here is my opinion......i know its gonna sound weird but for me to save your trouble......the only reason ppl want pacman on the list is becuz he did won many battles and won many belts,but the great reason for this is......the guy put a hard work in boxing from "Unskilled to Potential". Needless to say that ur list does amaze me and ur opinion is great with others have said. The thing that bugged me about u is that how ignorant (this may sound offensive) u can be by how u equally choose to compare the same skill with a guy who is scared enough to defend his clean record. I for one to think a person like that just want publicity,but i understand since were all humans and some of us want attention. Mayweather was great but u can't compare a man to a "Hard Working Human". Im not trying to say Mayweather didn't work hard but the guy isn't going to output a match with pac and u kno its true even all odds can be predictable that manny will win. As for me either ur blind or just one of the ppl that just can't stand on reality. Just to put u off if they rlly should fight why don't mayweather accept the challenge or better yet challenge him...i mean thats what u wanted right =D....its just too darn bad that u can't prove that mayweather will accept a fight since it should have happen a longtime ago.....(Nice List until ur argue and opinion ruined my taste) ~im not a manny fan either since i kinda hate him but i can't disagree on true talent~
tysON?REALLY?
Hey Druhepkins,
You are knowledgeable about this sport and the boxers, whats your opinion on a fight between mike tyson vs david tua. Alot of people compare tua to tyson and many think he can ko tyson. I personally think he would not win against tyson, as anyone who watches all of tysons fights and especially from 1985-88 knows he would defeat anyone with this skills and peek-a-boo headmovement. I would just like to see your opinion.
Hey man, nice.. but where is Manny Pacquiao my favorite little man, who demolished all bigger welterweight opponents? He's 8 world champion in the history of boxing, and the first asian to do that. If mayweather face Cotto, Margarito, Clottie, and get 8 division title, i think he's the list, but man your list is not complete, dont say that your American you can bias to your countryman, i'm from Egypt and i love Pacquiao, even his not my fellowman.
Did anyone watch the Klitschko-Adamek fight yesterday? The fight was predictably one-sided and boring but I was interested in some of the commentary provided by Emmanuel Stewart, Max Kellerman, and Jim Lampley. They were discussing how the Klitschko Brothers compared with some of the better modern fighters.
The more I watch Vitali, the more I think that he would be a tough match-up for just about anyone. Unlike his brother, Vitali is a much more natural fighter and wouldn't fold the first time he is hit with a hard punch. While it is true that Vitali was trouncing a puffed-up cruiserweight, there is no doubt that he does a lot of things right that combined with his size would make him a big challenge for a lot of historically great heavyweights.
I'm not suggesting that Dru put Vitali in his top 20 GOAT list but I suspect that Vitali will be a lot like Larry Holmes where he becomes more respected for his skills as time passes.
I've always cheered against the Klitschkos but I never really had a good reason to. They don't talk smack, they seem to be real gentlemen inside and outside of the ring, and are true scholars in a truly demanding academic discipline. I finally cheered for Wladimir when he fought David Haye who really deserved to get his @ss kicked. I'm starting to think that maybe I have underestimated these guys.
AWESOME list. My fave of all time boxers are Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and of course Mike Tyson. To me they were pioneers of boxing in terms of greatness and defining moment of their time. Come on now, Joe Louis destroyed the Nazi motto, Jack Johnson rose from typical racial stereotypes of his era and Iron Mike Tyson dominated a class in his early years. By the way PUNCH OUT was and still is the greatest video game ever.
Now comes Pacman and Mayweather. Sure Pacman is considered the greatest pound for pound champ and Mayweather the undefeated but these dont hold value. Unless these two meet in the ring their whole career would just be what people remember of them...WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF......Get these two fighting already so all these speculations about each boxer would end.
But on a serious note. If these two do get in the same ring who would you root for?
I say Pacman for me
People tend to worship too much old time boxers and despite modern ones. I was doing the same until i started to watch more carefully (and without hype and sound) these old films and compare boxers of those days to modern champs. My opinion now: boxers like Manny Pacquaio, Floyd Mayweather, Lucian Bute, Klitschko brothers and Nonito Donaire would have beaten old time heroes. No doubt. Think about Floyd vs. Carmen Basillo or even Sugar Ray Robinson. Or Manny Pacquiao vs. Henry Armstrong. Or Klitschko vs. Liston, Patterson or even Marciano.
Perhaps it's time to stop critisizing champs of our time. They are mostly more skillful than their predecessors, their stamina is better, they are much better trained, their style is better. It's time to make true confessions - old time boxers would have been brutally knocked out in 2010's ring.
The main reason why people underrate modern champions is because there are more and more non-american worldchampions. That's why people are making false conclusions than modern boxing is boring. Is it too hard to addmit that best boxers might not be african americans? When Berlin wall collapsed something very special happened to professional boxing. It's actually became more interesting. World is becoming smaller, and looks like american boxing fans don't like that change?
Love the list grate work will be back to work to see more of your grate work
Muhamad Ali the best!!! No question....No body had his style of boxing..Joe Luis, great boxer,however he had no foot work like Ali did, he was slower than hell..Ali would of distroyed his ass.. NO GOD DAMN LARRY HOLMES WAS BETTER THAN TYSON....TYSON KNOCKED HIS ASS OUT...TYSON KNOCKED PEOPLE WAY STRONGER THAN HOLMES OUT
sonny liston should be on there
I read somewhere a phrase about Tyson.
"People name thier fierce dogs Tyson. Not Holyfield or Lewis."
I think that speaks volumes about the cultural impact he has had.
"Being the first African American Heavyweight champ alone should secure him a spot on any top ten listing."
Biased much? And in his 10-year win streak, he fought nobody hard. He had a very rocky record, losing and winning randomly. Also, his "unusual" style was very boring. Mike Tyson once said he wouldn't make a penny today and it was easy to fall asleep in his fights.
This list is pretty accurate though. I would've place them:
1. Louis
2. Robinson
3. Pep (He was the original Ali, Pep was even trained in the same gym)
4. Ali
5. Dempsey
6. Marciano
7. Armstrong
8. Chavez
9. Tyson
10. Johnson
Duran should have made this list instead of Johnson.
Great line up, as for D16Z6 u have my vote.
This is the Best top ten List I have ever read
But for me , Roberto Duran should be in
IMO he is greater than Chavez !!
**********************
and it is not about records or achievements , it is about influence and charisma
You , americans , love Louis
but I bet No one here in Egypt and all Africa know what is Joe Louis ?!!!!!
when it comes to influence on boxing , I think the one and Only [ALI] is the biggest figure ever in the sport
and Tyson is the second
and these two have No One to be the third
I don't care If tyson was rapist ,drug dealer
Tyson + Ali = Boxing for at least half of population on this planet
Do You think that Egyptians , Libyans , Tunisians , peoples of congo , cote de voire , or cameroon ....etc wait for [ or even know ] mayweather or Pacquiao ?!
Absolutely , NO
for all these peoples , Boxing is dead after Tyson !!
and you still argue about tyson to be in the top 10 or not ?
LOL
this ranking is full of shit
After doing a lot of research on all champions of all time, I can offically say Johnson was an overated joke. Couldn't go 3 fights before getting knocked out, ran from Langford and Jeanette as champion, only fought 2 or 3 good fighters as champion, etc. By the way, that "Nobody could beat him for 10 years" thing is crap, after he lost the belt he only fought handpicked bums.
Here is my top 20 list:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Willie Pep
8. Roberto Duran
9. Benny Leonard
10. Jim J. Jeffries
11. Julio Cesar Chavez
12. Joe Gans
13. Sam Langford
14. Harry Greb
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Sugar Ray Leonard
17. Archie Moore
18. George Foreman
19. Jake LaMotta
20. Gene Tunney
You put together a decent list.
Tyson was fantastic, but he never beat a great fighter in his prime. Tommy Hearns probably would have knocked out everybody on your list except Sugar Ray Robinson and the heavyweights. Duran fought better fighters than Chavez and would have knocked Chavez out in a match up. Foreman would have knocked out all the heavyweights besides Ali. Marvin Hagler,Sugar Ray Leonard, and Roberto Duran were unbeatable in their prime. Roy Jones was unbeatable in his prime, but like Tyson suffers from the lack of great fighters to fight. Hearns would ko Pacman and Mayweather in the same night. Those two are both great, but need to fight each other to prove their greatness. I pick Mayweather by KO even though i think Pac is a great champion and person.
Hey Guys, thank for all of you guys stopping by and complimenting the list. I was tied up/travelling so forgive the absence. I'm going to have to generalize a response for all since I left for a while.
Enough with the Tyson guys lol. He’s in. Ppl new to the page keep missing the point and criteria. Sri-thanks for the support on that.
And “the judgement”, just admit it, You’re a Pac fan and that’s all there is to it lol. Mayweather doesn’t work and train hard too? C’mon man. I’m not a super fan of either of them but I give credit where it’s due. Floyd’s style is tough to match and dominate.
Daniel- David Tua beating Tyson in is his prime not a chance. David Tua v Tyson post ’98 probably—most likely.
Danny-discrediting Johnson is perhaps the most foolish thing you can try to do, and its something you can’t do if you admittingly didn’t know anything about him and planned on googling a couple things. Reread the paragraph above again. He was unbeatable to the point they threw charges at the guy to get rid of him. And the comment I made about him being the 1st African American boxer you found biased was taken out of context. Boxing was still segregated to a degree at the time. Johnson kicked everyone’s ass, internationally to the point there could be no one that ppl truly considered the champ unless they fought him. His dominance internationally earned him the title and without him they’d be no Joe Louis and who know who else. From a few minutes of googling you think he’s a bum, but the Ring Magazine founder Nat Fleisher, felt he was the greatest heavyweight of all time. Google a little more man.
Commercecomet- Hey man. Saw the Klitchko fight and it went exactly as I thought. The Klitchko’s are really superheavyweights and it shows. They just keep the small guys at bay with jabs and then sting. Boring. The division needs more big men with talent like a Lennox Lewis to make it interesting.
Thanks to everyone I missed. I read your posts and appreciate the approval.
Muhhamad Ali the best boxer ever for me! and Rocky Marciano is a loser which his scared for fight a second time with ''THE GREAT'' Muhhamad Ali!! :D
Hey the rock. Marciano and Ali didn't actually fight. They had a computer simulation fight that they allowed Marciano to win, which of course was fictitious nonsense. But yeah, Ali is a personal favorite boxer for me. They don't come like him anymore
Evander Holyfield gets no love? Holyfield is the only 5-time World Heavyweight champion, winning the WBA, WBC and IBF titles in 1990, the WBA and IBF titles in 1993 and the WBA title in 1996 and 2000. Holyfield also won the WBF title in 2010.
Hi, amazing list! I don't watch boxing really but take interest in the big fights and love the legends. For me I know a lot of people will disagree but I think in his prime Tyson would beat any of the people on this list. I grew up watching his fights and he was unbelievable! The power, speed and its like he wanted to destroy people, I dont think anyone could stop him. People forget Tyson in his prime...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FgS3kCv79I
In the link above he was only 19-20. Crazy!
Anyone remember a boxer by the name of Norman O'Neill? fought back in the early 40's.
Mike tyson was an is always goin to be the best in the world no one will ever admit it
What I meant by saying "Doing a lot of research" was making a Top 50 P4P list of my own. I knew a lot about Johnson to start with. He was a good defensive fighter but 90% of his popularity is based of breaking the race line.
Lets review his most important fights: Beating the 160 pound Langford and Ketchel, beating the 44 year old Fitzsimmons and beating Jeffreis who was not only old but hadn't fought in over 6 years.
Johnson also ducked a 200 pound Langford later.
By the way, Nat Fleisher's opinion is no longer a creditable source. He was right about a few things, like naming Dixon the best Bantamweight and Wilde the best Flyweight, but his opinion isn't important anymore.
You say Ali's a personal favorite of yours? Fleisher laughed at the idea of him being a top 10 heavyweight of all time. In fact, he never ranked a heavyweight who fought after 1930 the best of anything. He's like every old fan; refuses the accept that the next generation could go 3 rounds with the previous one.
No one takes Nat's word seroiusly anymore. He's just another fan, like you and me.
i dont think Manny deserved to be in the top list
he havent done anything since reaching welterweight, the least he could do is fight at the weltherweight weight
I'd have to go with Rocky Marciano at the top of this list. He is "Pound for Pound" the greatest because he was fought around 190lbs or so. That's pretty incredible when you are fighting heavies and destroying them! The Rock was great because he was always in incredible shape and was a lot smarter than his opponents thought he was. Most people are too young to know about him but what is being said about him today is simply not true. He fought as high caliber fighters (if not more so) than Ali, Dempsey, Louis, etc. The only difference is Rocky NEVER lost to ANY of them!
Funny thing. I think the Mexican's are the best. And the Most Entertaining. Not all those niggers up there like mu hammed Ali over rated.
I voted for pacquiao on the online poll thing because he trusts in God and put all of his faith in him and he doesn't really show off when he wins, he is a lot more humble than you think. He is so inspiring,even to 12 year olds like me
The Truth - You are "The Lie" in denial. There are several sites out there that cater to demented racists with strange unpopular opinions, choose one---but not here. This site is for boxing fans.
DanS and fatboy, yes Tyson was a beast. Thanks for the support.
joeblack4x4 2 - Holyfield definitely gets props, just not on a top ten of all time.
DPV -you might be alone with the Marciano thing. I respect him but just don't think he's tops at all.
kiimz- you're not the only one who thinks that and I understand. He has done a lot though. Not for a top ten consideration yet though.
meAmDawesomeKidd - Hey man, it's good to always keep an open mind and continue to admire people for the right reasons. Manny is also a humanitarian that helps people. That's very important and a good trait about him.
Thanks everyone else for dropping by and commenting.
Tyson was a beast at 19,I personally never seen anybody rock a heavy bag and heads quite like him.Hearns got banned for hitting too hard,in my book that earns him a spot in the top 10.Chavez was a warrior too!I think Mayweather would win over Pac.I think I could beat DeLaHoya,he's such a wuss.lol
Hi sorry for my bad english its not my first language, i just want to say that this is one of the best top 10 list
There's only one thing I would change and thats putting julio cesar chavez number 2 or 3 he didn't lost a fight for so long until he didn't care anymore stop training start doing drugs and drinking and even with all of that he only lost 1 fight then he got very old and lost a few more at like 70 years old haha. And i agree with you in not putting manny or mayweather in the list until they fight and we all see who's the best im a pacman fan but i don't know who will win. And one more thing i want to ask for your opinion on the manny vs marquez 3 fight, in my opinion marquez did a great job and and i think he deserves at least a draw vs manny but im just a boxing fan no expert i'm training to become a pro actually at the same gym that erik morales
in tijuana, morales my local hero was a great fighter in his prime definitely in mexico's top 10 list,ok so ill be waiting for your opinion & thanks for all your effort you put into the list and keep up the good work
Hey Danny,
Hey man, tried to get back to you soon as I could so here goes.
Lost in your own perspective, you keep over looking an ENORMOUS aspect as to why Jack Johnson is on this list. Primarily his cultural impact that you took out of context: he was the 1st African American heavyweight champ of the world, 1st of a long list of group that would remain in that club for several decades to come--- to Joe Louis, to Liston ,Patterson, Ali, all the way to the 90's. He was also world famous/infamous for his title defense streak of both black and white competition, to the degree he became the 1st man to make the country cry for its 1st white hope. If you didn't know, its through Jack Johnson where the famous phrase "Great White Hope" 1st originated.
Johnson was also one of the very 1st celebrity athletes, outspoken and appearing always in the media and radio. What you see now in your generation as the norm, he was 1st.
Before Johnson was Champ of the World, he was just the "Colored" World Champ. Undefeated Jeffries refused to fight him on racial grounds then retired. Johnson unwavering, cleverly used his enemy to his advantage---the media. He taunted the Canadian Champ of the world until it got under his skin and agreed to fight him. Johnson steamrolled him and became Champ of the World. This is the 1st time in which the world champ boxed his competition in, and strategized his way to the top despite the roadblocks, and became champ of the world.
They begged Jeffries, now seen as the only man in the world who might be able to beat him to come back and fight Johnson. This was one of the 1st epic super fights, and promoters went nuts with it. And yes Johnson steamrolled him too.
When Jack Johnson won, the country was split. Black towns were celebrating in the street and neighboring white towns came around to riot and pillage. This epic era in history became the inspiration for many books, famous poems and movies. Let alone being the 1st Black Champ of the world, the historical and cultural element of Johnson to this country is already through the roof at this point Danny. Later in life, Johnson died at 68 in a car crash after storming out of a restaurant that wouldn't serve him because he was black.
You keep trying to come up with reasons to discredit him for an all time great list, but your just not going to succeed at coming up with a better boxing tale and legend than this from a world champion.
You switched it around and put Pep as number 3 and Johnson as 10th. Not sure if you seen any Willie Pep movies lately but we all have our opinions and I'll respect yours.
Hey DANNY009,
You're English is perfectly fine, and better than my Spanish. Thanks for supporting the list.
I love Chavez, but I don't think anyone would agree with you putting him in front of Louis, Ali or Robinson. That's a tough sell man.
As for the Marquez/Pacquiao fight, I think Marquez did great. However, I knew he wasn't going to get the win if the fight was close again, and it was. Pacquiao has the super star edge, and he was the busier fighter, they were most likely going to vote in his favor if it was close. Marquez should've taken more risks in the last rounds and let his hands go. Marquez had him. He just shouldn't have fought the last rounds as if he was protecting a win because he wasn't. He should've mixed it up and took it to Pacquiao with an exclamation point. Pacquiao wasn't accurate, Marquez was and landed harder cleaner shots. If he matched Pacquiao's intensity in the last rounds he could have won unanimously. Great fight to watch. Unfortunately neither fighter proved what he wanted to and they're still in the exact same boat.
As for Pacquiao being listed as a GOAT, yes, premature and he does need to fight Mayweather already for a correct assessment win lose or draw.
Thanks for coming by and come back anytime.
Hey Tigerstyle312,
As for Mayweather vs Pacquiao, a lot of experts agree with you at this point. Before it was a toss up, but not anymore. Pacquiao vs Marquez showed everyone a lot. The reason why Marquez was able to give Pacquiao so much trouble is because he's an excellent defensive fighter and counter puncher. Marquez stood his ground, let Pacquiao do what he does, and countered at will with clean blows. Mayweather is the best at that, and is even quicker and stronger, he'd most likely be an even bigger problem for Pacquiao. Pacquiao would really have his hands full with Mayweather. Mayweather is a master at using busy fighters like Pacquiao against themselves and countering all day long. Win lose or draw, Pacquiao would have to get smacked up a lot.
I'd go easy on Dela Hoya, he's not bad at all. Dela Hoya had a great career, beat a still relevant Chavez and he took Trinidad to boxing school event though they didn't give him the win. I just think Dela Hoya began to lose focus just a little bit and became more the business man opportunist. Also in his last fight, training down and dropping all that weight to fight Pacquiao wasn't smart for his boxing career, it was more of a paycheck.
Thanks for coming by man.
Johnson was not, however, the first African American World Champion (Something you credited him for). That honor goes to Joe Gans. Gans just didn't get in the media's face the same way Johnson did.
Jeffries wasn't necessarily afraid of Johnson. The pay difference between defending against a white man or a black man was about 100K to 5K. Also, he probably would have gotten a lot of criticism, even if he won.
I don't know where the story of Burns running from and insulting Johnson is coming from. I think Bert Sugar made it up (he's been known to stretch the truth to tell an interesting story). Regardless, Tommy Burns was not a racist and feared no one. That's why he fought Johnson.
By the way, my p4p list has been changing a lot lately. The one I put here is really outdated.
Anyways, I do respest you and your list. I think you did a great job. You're also one of the few people I've seen that gave Tyson a good spot. People overrate him so badly, he's become very underrated.
Johnson was a great defensive fighter who lead a very impressive career. I think he has earned a spot on every top 10 Heavyweight list. But his fame in the political world has given him a high spot on so many pound for pound lists where I personally feel he doesn't belong.
Johnson was also by no means the first athlete to be appearing always in the media and radio. Sullivan and Corbett both did and so did champions in other divisions.
Hey whats up Danny,
With Johnson---I didn't say 1st African-American "World Champ", I said 1st African American "Heavyweight Champ"---which was of course the biggest international boxing division draw at the time. The "Old Master" Joe Gans was a lightweight champ. The 1st African American heavyweight champ is what I listed Johnson as initially and if I referred to him later on in the comments as anything else it was unintentional. Johnson was in fact the 1st of the legacy of African American World "Heavyweights".
Also I wasn't saying Johnson was the first black athlete to receive media attention point blank. That's obviously not true or what I was saying. I'm saying he was the 1st black athlete to receive that degree of media attention---and that is true. In those days, they viewed him as the most famous black man in the entire world, and he was the most hated black man in America. The next one up to that international spotlight was Louis, but before that it was clearly Johnson. His name STILL comes out of the mouth of the countries elite and politicians to this day. John McCain even just asked for his presidential pardon in 2008. That so has to seal the case for you man lol.
As for the Burns fight---European and Canadian whites weren't typically racist. It was mostly a problem in America because of the times. Just to be clear I never said anything about Burns ducking Johnson because of race because he didn't. Jeffries did however, and blatantly said so. But no, race wasn't an issue in the Burns fight. In order to get the fight however, Jack Johnson did to Burns what Ali did to Liston: he cleverly forced himself into a title fight with him by publicly messing with Burns all the time. After a while, the public begins to want to see the fight and Burns eventually caved and agreed to fight him.
As for Jeffries versus Johnson, any monetary disparity between black and white fighters didn't matter when it came to certain fighters who were the best in the division. The purse for Johnson would've always been higher than most no matter when they fought because of who he was. Johnson was already a big draw and they were willing to throw big money at anyone who could shut him up. Jeffries initially didn't fight Johnson on racial grounds period, not monetary grounds.
I agree with you about your last paragraph. And I concede that his controversial celebrity has everything to do with him being ranked high on my list. This is a pound for pound of the best of all time--as well as a blend of the most famous, legendary and talked about boxers.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on Canelo Alvarez?---I was recently asked about him on the other page so I'm curious.
UK Chris--hey man, Sorry I didn't respond to your question. You too A. Trejo. You both posted during a time I was inundated with posts and debates so I inadvertently skipped over you. Sorry about that guys. If you ever come back and re-post I'll jump right on it next time. By the way, I responded about Calzaqhe in my 11-20 list.
As for Chavez, Jr (A Trejo), I've grown respect for him just like Canelo ALvarez. However, enough of the bums and exhibitions. The point has been made. Now I need to see a merging of Alvarez, Martinez and Chavez to make my call on their worth.
Come back anytime guys and sorry for anyone else I may have missed by accident.
Just wanted to know of you thought Carlos monzon deserved a spot on the list, although he was a bit controversial, surely his skill should give him a place on the list, and honorable mention to Roy Jones, guy was unique
Julio cesar chavez is the best
No doubt
you are crazy to include mike tyson in the list of top 10
You guys forgot one more that ended his career undefeated just like Rocky Marciano one of the only 2 boxers with a clean record RICARDO " EL FINITO " Lopez.........
Hey qdd,
Carlos Monzon is definitely one of the best middleweights of all time. And definitely one of the most talked about considering all his drama, incarceration, tragic death etc. But Hagler was definitely a better middleweight and would probably deserve consideration in front him. It's extremely hard to put a list of the best boxers of all time in a short list----you realize quickly not everyone can squeeze in to one list. Carlos Monzon is definitely one of the best middleweights of all time hands down. He might even be the top 5 best middleweights of all time. I wouldn't squeeze him in the top 20 of all time for all weight divisions though. Roy Jones did crack the list in the top 20 (11-20). The link is right by the poll on this page.
Thanks for stopping by man
It's the boxing pedantic that usually ends up being the strongest Tyson hater. It's also the ones that don't practice boxing or any martial art for that matter. It's as retarded as arguing Bruce Lee never beat anyone. You have to be a good boxer yourself to fully appreciate Mike Tyson. He brought to us what none of us have EVER seen before. If you've practiced boxing, you'll know Tyson was a FREAK OF NATURE. His movements represented the most direct, simple, and efficient way of transferring 215 lbs of his body weight into a high speed battering machine. He slipped punches not simply as a means of defense, but as a means of getting inside and simultaneously twisting his body back to launch a liver breaking punch. Yes, I am a Tyson fan. I'm also a fan of good scientific fighting techniques and Tyson was the epitome of this in his prime. Based on pure fighting/boxing science and technique, Tyson wins. If you deny this, you don't know anything about fighting.
At the end of the day, boxers have to have one critical attribute and that is the ability to entertain. Based on this one criteria, Tyson should be closer to number 1. His box office records as a boxer are proof of this.
It was something in life that these great people made a name for themsevles and fought in and out of the ring. No matter what you think, did you get paid for fighting what difference have you made to have the world remember you.
I saw the other part of your list first and had expected to come here and see the likes of Wilde, Greb, Gans, Lopez and Galaxy instead you have Tyson, Dempsey and Marciano. gah lol :-p
Nice list. A good read for me during my downtime today. I kind of dislike the term "pound-for-pound" because it's quite a subjective term where everyone has their own guidelines of how a boxer is ranked (overall record, depth of competition, quality wins, overall talent in the ring, etc.). I personally don't care for using showmanship (e.g. Gatti is a great showman but will never be at the top of a P4P list) or popularity or cultural significance, since a great fighter is just that regardless of those concepts, but that's just me.
Of course there will be some disagreements I have as to which boxers and where you ranked in your top ten, but you at least went through your rationale of why you have each of them ranked, so I'm perfectly fine with your list otherwise. You hit the head on the nail with your reasons why Floyd or Pac aren't ranked on your list ... it's tough to find where they belong on a P4P list if they haven't finished their careers yet. I don't rank them on a top 50 P4P list for that reason as well. My main reason for not ranking Floyd is that he has not been truly being tested, and he hasn't had enough career-defining fights unlike SR Robinson or SR Leonard. If he does beat his nearest threat in Pac, then I'd rank him in my top 20/50.
As for Pac, I downgraded his accomplishment of having titles in 8 different weight classes for good reason. I don't think Pac's accomplishment is anywhere near the level of Henry Armstrong's feat of being a world champion simultaneously in three weight classes because Armstrong's era featured the eight traditional weight classes (flyweight, bantamweight, featherweight, lightweight, welterweight, middleweight, light heavyweight, heavyweight) where there was only *one* champion per division while the current era has ballooned to seventeen weight classes, each with at least 4 trinkets per division (WBO/IBF/WBC/WBA), unless you count the Ring Magazine title, which makes it 5(!). Combine that with the today's crop of weaker competition compared to yesteryear, where the divisions were more deeply stacked with quality contenders and greater fighters, and the fact that the champions that Pac beat were less impressive on paper (Diaz, Hatton, Barrera, a fading Morales, a fading de la Hoya, sometimes with bouts at catchweight) with Armstrong's competition (fellow HOF'er Barney Ross, Ceferino Garcia and Chalky White)
Everyone has their ultimate list of GOATs for the sport of boxing, but regarding your list, it's refreshing to see that you at least tried to stay as objective as possible and showed that you at least did your research. Among the legions of "fans" that don't really know the sport's rich history (or the fight game for that matter), that's saying a lot.
Last thing. Since they're not on your list, would you rank these fighters (Sam Langford, Salvador Sanchez, Joe Gans, Ricardo Lopez, Emile Griffith, Harry Greb, Jimmy Wilde, ) in your Top 50? Thanks.
fievel, I do believe you are one boxing fan that does get it. Many people who aren't in tune with the sport blast Tyson for his downfall and fights with Holyfield and Lewis, with disregard and selective memory for what he did and how he did it. He had the body of a fine tuned cruiser weight, the speed of a middleweight, and the shocking punching power of a super heavyweight, and with it he unified all belts at 20. He was one of the hugest boxing draws in which people deliberately paid for his fights KNOWING it might end in seconds. They just wanted to see him do it. Tyson was the only boxer in recent history so captivating in the heavyweight division that EVERYONE thought "wow, there's no one that could possible beat this guy", and that hasn't happened since.
It takes someone with an athlete's mind and a true respect for the sport to see him in his prime and no better than to commit the blasphemy of calling him a bum----which is why announcers and analysts still pay him homage to this day. You're on the mark fievel. Thanks for stopping by.
Hey man. Sorry I'm getting back to you so late, I forgot about this.
Umm. Yeah, you did call Johnson the first African-American 'champion' and the first 'point blank' athlete to recieve media attention.
"Let alone being the 1st Black Champ of the world, the historical and cultural element of Johnson to this country is already through the roof at this point Danny."
"Johnson was also one of the very 1st celebrity athletes, outspoken and appearing always in the media and radio."
You seem to really know your history, though, so I'm sure you knew Joe Gans won a world title before Johnson did. Just giving credit where it's deserved.
I will agree with you that it's important to note that Johnson was the first African-American athlete to recieve media attention. Before there was Jackie Robinson and Joe Louis, there was Jack Johnson.
And as for John McCain... if he had been elected, he'd never lost sleep over Jack Johnson. Republicans and Democrats agree on that.
And for Tommy Burns, the story is weird. There are plenty of different versions of how Burns and Johnson would eventually agree to fight in the ring.
The story that best potrays Burns says he feared no one. He was a good guy who was very much against racism, he was even married to a black women at one point. If there was someone out there better than him, he didn't want the title.
The more negative one claims Burns insulted Johnson terribly leading up to the fight. There is even a recording of an angry Johnson saying if he killed Burns in the ring, it would have been completly justified. That suprised me, because Johnson never seemed to care about insults he got.
Maybe Jeffries did duck Johnson when he was champion. But I don't want to say Jeffries 'feared' Johnson. If Jeffries knew at the time how famous Johnson would become, he likely would have challenged him in his prime. Regardless, lots of champions and historians who were alive to see him Jeffries fight thought really highly of him.
In conclusion, I'm not saying Johnson isn't an important figure in American history. He is. I just hate when that get's mixed up in terms of accomplishments 'inside' the ring.
Now, for Saul Alvarez. What were you asked about him, exactly? I think he's a good fighter. I don't really like him though.
A lot of his title defenses lately have been against people with 4 or 5 losses. I'm still waiting for him to give my favorite 154 contender, the undefeated Vanes Martirosyan, a title shot.
Vanes has been ranked the WBC #1 contender for the past year. Pretty strange that Canelo won't fight him. He's currently promoted by Bob Arum and Top Rank and also trains with Freddie Roach, Manny Pacquiao, Amir Khan, Tim Bradley and Julio Chavez Jr. He also defeated three future world champions in the amateurs. After watching Vanes spar with his son, the great Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. predicted him to be a world champion someday.
In other words, he's got a promising future.
Chavez Jr. and Alvarez aren't that different. Both are good, but have taken a lot of easy fights. Chavez gets a lot more criticism for having a legendary dad, though.
Again, Canelo's good, but I want to see him take on a hard opponent.
Thanks for coming by again SGraveson,
You could find those names you mentioned on any boxing nerd or boxing snob site. Me slightly being one of them, would concur with you. But this list isn't just a bland pound for pound best list. The reality of the attempt to make one is flawed anyway, and is almost impossible to do 100% accurately. The only sport that it can be done 100% accurately is Track and Field for all time.This list is inspired by a better philosophy: This is a list of the greatest boxers of all time who captivated the world in and out of the ring for various reasons. Boxers who were the best of their time, who did what others have done but with special distinction. And ALL things considered---including their boxing skill, records AND global, cultural impact---Tyson, Dempsey and Marciano---years after their respective reigns are people I can still to this day bring up in a bar conversation and have random people know them and join in. Not Greb, Gans, Lopez or Galaxy. Nuff said.
Thanks for stopping by man. I enjoy your hubs as well and its nice to see you here.
Floyd Mayweather deserves to be on this list of the top boxers of all time
mayweathers the best!!!
Yes I think its a disgrace that Tyson isnt recognised in so many polls. His prime was short but in his prime he could have beaten anyone. Imagine Tyson V Frazier. I believe Tyson would have destroyed him and thats saying something. Its just a pity Cuz wasnt around for much longer though I do believe Tyson would have left him a couple of years down the line. Tyson had never experienced young adult life. He went from kid to boxer and boxer was all he was for those few years which made him so good. I think he was always destined for a fall simply due to the way the world is for thoughtful but emotionaly scarred man such as himself. I would rate him second to Ali though I do believe he would beat Ali in his prime
LOL 'Ol Iron Mike was exciting to watch, especially in his prime, but making him one of greatest based on that would be a far-stretch for me. Anyways, great well thought out list man. Other than Tyson, your list sort of resembles mine.
Honorable mention as you define greatest of all time should be Salvador Sanchez. Only downfall is his short career due to his death at an early age. This fighter had it all. Key wins: Danny Lopez(twice), Wilfredo Gomez, and Azumah Nelson.
I wanted to ask your opinion on something.
Let's say there's a Heavyweight who's: 5'10 or 5'11, weighs 200-215 (220 Max) and uses great speed, footwork and combination punches.
Do you think this Heavyweight could not only beat the new Heavyweights (6'8, 270lbs, rely on power mainly) but could also KO them?
Just something I was wondering. Some people say the new Heavyweights have conqured the division, other's thinkan original heavyweight with the skill and dedication could overcome them.
What do you think?
Sure he could, but he's gonna have to work extra hard to get inside, and once inside burst off 3-4 punch combinations--i.e., a young Mike Tyson style. The only problem he run's into is a big strong heavyweight with a great jab. A good quick jab thrown by a real big heavyweight is an asset simply based on the fact that most heavyweights have "one-punch" KO ability; so, a lil dude would be running into be big blows he don't see--b/c of the great jab. If both Lennox Lewis and Buster Douglas didn't have great jabs Tyson would've knocked them out....in my opinion.
Mike Tyson is one of my favorite boxers ever but he's not a top 20 fighter in history. Robinson to me is hands down number 1 . Great list and an awesome hub overall. Check out my boxing hubs.
WHERE IS JOE FRAZIER???
Hey Danny,
J80Caldwell is exactly right. Thanks to both of you coming by too btw guys. You described a Tyson to a “T” (no pun intended). Yes it would take a Heavyweight (Cruiserweight) like a Tyson to make a splash into this new super heavyweight domination. Tyson believed in his power and ability, fought the 1st 3 rounds like he did, and kept the haymakers and uppercuts raining down. When they landed they opposition started to wonder how much more of that they could take. And of course most eventually folded.
Tyson was an anomaly though, and it will take a special guy with power and speed like his that I don’t see on the horizon. Fighters who are good but 6 feet and under up against the superheavyweights is just too challenging. Especially since the Klitchko’s for example, aren’t just huge men, they’re also pretty athletic. It’s too easy for them to win if they concentrate on fighting a good fight. Klitcko vs Haye showed us that. It was apparent that Haye had the power to KO Klitcko and hurt him at times, but Vladimir Klitcko is also a good boxer and kept on jabbing and keeping Haye back, and then used his size to lock him up anytime he was close to being in trouble. The size advantage was too conspicuous and consequently, there was no good fight and nothing was proven. Also, even though Tyson was mentally finished at this point, (Superheavyweight) Lennox did the same to Tyson; concentrated, did let him close, kept a stiff jab in face all night and seized when he was worn down.
Boxing might soon have to make new distinctions as things do change and evolve. A guy 5’10-6’1and 180lbs would be considered a heavyweight once upon a time. Today that same guy would choose to be a super middleweight or light heavyweight.
It still can be done, but the answer is intensity and pressure. These smaller guys come and foolishly attempt to box with the Klitchko’s and other big men when they should be forcing the fight. Pacquiao didn’t try to keep away and box with the bigger guys he fought, he tried to bring it to them and kept the pace up and in their face. In the same way, the smaller Heavyweights need to take risks, try to get inside and stay in the bigger men’s faces. You have to go for broke with the guys that size or else don’t get in the ring. So yes it can be done, but I don’t see a guy that can deliver in the horizon. So for now at least the big guys are sitting pretty.
Thanks again Danny and J80 Caldwell
WHO MIGHT BE CONSIDERD AMONGST THE TOP FIVE HEAVY-WEIGHTS TODAY?
Hey, gkiboko@yahoo.co.uk. Thanks for stopping by.
If Floyd fights Pacquiao and beats him as expected, I’d have to agree with you and I think he’d deserve to be listed.
Thanks for coming by too, cezear gamet. Floyd is definitely stylistically impressive and clearly the best pound for pound of the era.
Sorry Dru, but if you think Floyd beating Manny will prove anything and if you think he's the pound for pound best of this era... you're probably black.
Floyd's been running from Manny for years. Why do you THINK Floyd's expected to win? Because he waited until Manny was shot.
Also, Mayweather fans like to turn the pound for pound list into a Best Defensive Fighter list.
The pound for pound list takes into consideration opponents beaten, titles won and overall fighting abilities.
See, being the #1 pound for pound best is like a title. You defend it. If you refuse to defend it, your stripped of it. This is why Manny is the REAL best of this era.
Lets say: Martinez refuses to fight the #1 contender, get stripped of his belt, yet still claims he's the best at 160.
Would you consider him so?
looking for best fights go check out my ebay boxing sets should be all there
P.b. –No one really cares about the top 5 Heavyweights at the moment and unfortunately no one’s there. It’s definitely the Klitchko’s followed by Haye---and then it’s a blurred line of whatever’s and whoevers. Really big men are starting to dominate mainly because they’re huge, not necessarily that talented.
!13- Joe Frasier’s in the 11-20 list. See the link below.
Johnswagger and j80caldwell- as the Tyson posts keep rolling in both for him and against, you guys are inadvertently proving my point. Keep ‘em coming.
C. Juan – thanks for supporting my list and you gave an excellent break down that I agree with. You definitely understand how to consider a GOAT and the variables to think about. I appreciate your contribution.
DGO and on the money – thanks for stopping by guys. Pleas come back and let me know you guys are still around and didn’t get lost in the shuffle and I’ll gadly respond to you guys. Thanks for stopping in.
Hey DDK, thanks for coming by.
If I think Floyd’s the best p4p I must be black??? If I think Floyd is the best pound for pound, I actually could be anyone who read the latest official boxing rankings. Dude, why the race baiting lol? It’s SOOO not a racial issue number 1, and number 2, I’m not even speaking as a Mayweather fan. Why do so many Pac fans REFUSE to admit Mayweather’s any good, and then make off the wall comments?
Why do I favor Floyd in a match up? Easy---styles make fights; Pacquiao is an aggressor who eats shots, just as he did with Marquez and everyone else---even upon winning, as he brings the pressure. Floyd still undefeated, has a field day with that style type and Pacquiao most likely would not defeat him. Pacquiao is not going to batter a cowering Mayweather up against the ropes with his aggressive style. It’s just not gonna happen. Pacquiao will however, swallow clean hard and accurate counter punches all night long trying to. That’s all there is to it. Now to reduce my probably correct opinion, to some sort of racial allegiance is uncalled for. I have many friends, colleagues and boxing fan friends, white and black who’d agree. This is no race thing----that’s really stupid. I’m not a Mayweather fan, I’m a boxing fan and a realist. And unlike some of us, my eyes are open when I watch fights. No I don’t stare at the colors they are, I watch what they can do. You just can’t admit Mayweather is good when he is, because you’re heart belongs to Pacquiao, and you probably just can’t stand it.
I’m not sure man, but you do sound a bit like those irrational Pacquiao diehards who will hear nothing else, and try to explain how Pacquiao would win against everyone for all time.
As for this Mayweather “ducking Pacquiao for years” myth---You probably believed him and Freddie Roach when they stared into the camera and lied to you about being the ones wanting to fight Mayweather, but whined he was making too many demands. The deal was on the table, it would’ve been boxing’s biggest payout, but the stall and end of negotiations was really about their concern for taking the drug test. Everyone else fought Mayweather, terms and all just fine. Pacquiao’s camp were being uncompromising Divas just as must as Floyd, but blamed everything on Mayweather knowing the press was on their side, and to blow the attention off the test. You’re the victim of a classic tale spin, my friend. Mayweather and Pacquiao were both fighting the same guys with no problem in negotiations; Dela Hoya, Mosley, Hatton, Marquez etc….it was Pacquiao’s camp however, who felt he was special, and that he didn’t have to make any compromises---including a drug test that shouldn’t have been a big deal. Every A-list fighter negotiates his terms---it’s just business as usual. It was Roach and the Pacman crew that arrogantly want everyone to do what’s best for their Jesus incarnate. They want everyone to fight at the best weight for him, the best time etc…etc. Then they came up to a man that called his own shots and was rightfully the true pound for pound king, but they didn’t feel they needed to do a damn thing---not even for the fans. They had concerns about the drug test which was really the only issue, and didn’t want to agree to one even 14 days before or after the fight---so they walked. Stop saying Mayweather “ducked” Pacquiao. They both willingly came to the table to strike a deal, but the Pacquiao camp felt he didn’t need to bend.
You also still might believe in his publicized image of invincibility, even as a guy Mayweather obliterated (Marquez) smacked Pacquiao back to earth again in what is being perceived as another draw. No one did that to Mayweather.
And no, Pacquiao isn’t “shot” now all of a sudden. Pacquiao hasn’t lost anything. He fought an excellent fighter named Juan Manuel Marquez is all. You only saw what happens when Manny doesn’t fight a has-been, and the guy he’s fighting still has “it”. Manny just got rocked and challenged by a guy who rocked him before, and they just picked up where they left off years prior. Manny’s of the best, but he’s just not superhuman in a class all in his own like you wanted to believe. They picked Pacquiao’s fights well and at great times. But check the latest rankings. He’s not the welterweight supreme guy anymore----it’s Floyd. But because you’re a fan too sauced up on Pac Juice, you can’t see the obvious.
I both like and respect Pacquiao as a fighter and as a man, but I’m a little more honest and accurate about where he truly ranks than you can ever be capable of.
If Mayweather beats Pacquiao, yes it would be meaningful because it would finally put guys like you on ice, guys who’d never give Floyd his credit. He’s the best pound for pound fighter at the moment period. The Mayweather fans that posted here do have a point and I gave it to them. It doesn’t bother me one bit either. You can only see things through the perspective of the Almighty Pacquiao which is why you’ll never get it, but to everyone else, it would be a stellar way to end an excellent undefeated career, defeating one of the most internationally decorated fighters of the decade. Mayweather would have coasted through the entire field with nothing else to prove in the era he clearly owned. After that win, no it wouldn’t be crazy to consider him one the GOATS, he’d really have a good case. Love Pacquiao too, but be fair, be real, and give a guy his due.I understand you like Pac but the "you must be black if you like Mayweather" stuff is a little berzerk man.
I do appreciate you coming by and I appreciate your contribution so thanks.Keep coming
Great list, you seem you took time for evaluate every one of them....but my only consern was joe Louise and ali order. in my opinion ali would not advantage of fast feet and great reflexes.
Hey knaan. Thank you so much for coming by and complimenting the list.
As for the Ali/Louis order; I partially agree with you and I wrestled with this one for a while. Those 2 usually float to the top spots on most lists and it becomes a case of perspective and criteria. And Ali is actually number 1 on my personal favorite list for many reasons. However, I decided to list Louis first for a variety of reasons when I deliberated over it.
I listed Louis first initially because he WAS first and paved the way for Ali to some degree as an internationally renowned African American Heavyweight champion. And Ali also had very legendary battles, but Louis’ first round KO of Max Schmeling during the reign of Nazi Germany was a much more significant moment in sports history, and American history. Also--with people all over the country literally spilling out onto the streets in celebration of Louis’ victories, boxing has never been more culturally significant than in that period in time, giving Louis more iconic points. I don’t think any other boxer had that prestigious and momentous a stage in which world leaders and their respective countries during a time of war were watching plugged in and emotionally attached to the fight. This edges Louis out in front on my list.
This is a list of The Greatest Boxers of All Time, and not just a pound for pound-er, and who meant more to the sport. For African Americans, Louis was the first internationally beloved Black American boxing hero and ambassador during a different, racially sensitive time---representing his country and his people in myriad, unprecedented ways---and that's really hard to top. I hear your point loud and clear though. Thanks for coming by.
You all forget the fitness and work rate of Joe C, hes the only person i would put against pac man to beat him!
How about Lucian Bute?
where is Roy jones, Ricky hatton, Valuev, Klichko brothers ?
Hey magic_matt.
Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter but a little bit overhyped my friend. But yes however, Calzaghe would probability defeat Pacquiao, but so would quite a few light heavyweight elite fighters on that level: Antonio Tarver who KO’ed Roy Jones, Andre Ward, Carl Froch, Mikkel Kessler and the list goes on. Not a very fair or reasonable match up, especially considering Pacquiao was beaten by lightweights some time ago. Anyway, thank for stopping by.
Hey there Me,
Lucian Bute is no doubt an excellent fighter. He has speed, power and very respectable boxing ability. However, he went another route; the “fan favorite in my own universe” route and I’m still not sure what to make of him. Guy’s like Mikkel Kessler is no doubt of the best in the world, and you have to respect him because he mixed it up with everyone. The man fought Carl Froch and won, Andre Ward, Joe Calzaghe and other internationally acclaimed notables and juggernauts. When you’re an undefeated champion like Bute, selling out crowds and signing autographs for one section of the world, I’m done with the meaningless exhibitions after a while. You have to throw down with a big dog and legitimize yourself eventually. I’d love to see him mix it with a guy like Andre Ward win lose or draw to finalize what I think of him.
Comeback anytime man.
Whoa!!! WILLIE PEP rocks!! 229-11-1 was that a world record? by the way.. manny pacquiao has a new record...8 tittles in different divisions
Surely Ricardo Lopez should be on the list for best pound for pound boxer of the modern era?
Howdy druhepkins and all. I like looking at lists like this. I enjoy other people's opinions on what is a very controversial subject. I find it very very difficult to pick a definative top ten but i still like to throw my two pence worth in. I wouldn't have Ali, or any heavyweight, in my all time top ten. He was the best heavywight of all time without a doubt and that is good enough. I wouldn't have Louis, Johnson, Marciano or Dempsey in my top 10 heavyweights. They were the best of their time and no one can do more than that but they couldn't have competed with Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson or even Vitali Klitschko. In my opinion anyway. I agree that Pep and Armstrong are top 10 of all time and Robinson is the best in my mind.
Robinson's record is unmatched.
Unbeaten in 75 amateur fights (40 odd in the 1st round)
World welterweight champion and five times world middleweight champion (still unequalled today).
Won his first 40 pro fights before losing to Jake LaMotta on points(fought LaMotta 6 times in total winning 5).
After losing to LaMotta, Robinson went unbeaten in more than 90 consecutive fights before losing again (on points to Randolph Turpin in England).
The Turpin fight was Robinson's fifth fight in a month spread across Belgium, Italy, Germany and England. He knocked Turpin out 69 days later in the rematch.
So including his amateur fights he lost only once in his first 200 fights.
Only one of his 19 defeats (in over 200 pro fights) was before his 30th birthday with 10 of them coming after his 40th birthday. And he is one of the very few fighters to have more than 100 knockouts.
His record looks similar to (very few) other fighters such as Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, Archie Moore, Benny Leonard and Willie Pep. I think Armstrong comes closest to Robinson's level. That's why Armstrong is number 2 on my list.
So my list goes thusly.
01 - Sugar Ray Robinson
02 - Henry Armstrong
03 - Benny Leonard
04 - Roberto Duran
05 - Julio Caesar Chavez
06 - Willie Pep
07 - Manny Pacquiao
08 - Oscar DeLaHoya
09 - Roy Jones Jnr
10 - Sugar Ray Leonard
I would say the first three are definative and the rest are up for debate. You could easily argue for Hagler, Arguello, Moore, Hopkins, Ricardo Lopez, Wilfredo Benitez, Felix Trinidad, Barrera, Salvador Sanchez, Ruben Olivares or even Tommy Hearns. That's why the subject is so controversial and makes such a good debate. I'd like to see your top 10 for each division. That would be very interesting indeed.
FYI i'm not the same "The Truth" who posted previously and used the "N" word. Next time i'll use a different name.
Hey Jaypee4 . What’s up man---thanks for stopping by. Willie Pep definitely is the man and that is the most impressive record.
As for the Pacquiao 8 division thing---what can I say; it is what it is man. When analyzing unprecedented feats you have to put things in perspective. The reason why Manny can grab 8 divisions and some who had much more boxing aptitude and ability than Pacquiao hadn’t in the past already like Sugar Ray Robinson or Henry Armstrong (who both probably would’ve today) is because there are now over twice as many divisions than there used to be since the 50’s, and the divisions weren’t as watered down as they are now. For instance, Harry Greb banged it out with Tiger Flowers, Mickey Walker and a host of other fighting legends at his own weight class. Guys like Harry Greb, Ray Robinson, Jimmy Wilde and countless others had their hands full right where they were and shined as boxing greats by eclipsing other legends in their prime, not by collecting division belts from lesser opponents in weaker divisions. Also, Guys like Greb, Walker, Armstrong, Sam Langford, Ray Robinson and others already routinely fought guys who outweighed the from 20-80lbs and won, but never received any special distinction for it.
Jumping around in divisions is something fighters can get away with now by jumping up another 3 pounds at a time and snatching another weight class title from paper champ bums. Don’t get me wrong, it still is a very cool achievement for a fighter’s legacy sake and bragging rights, but not a jaw dropper by any means.
Thanks for coming by man.
Hey Ady Clark,
Ricardo Lopez was definitely a great boxer in the radar. Undefeated with an impressive career and unpreced ented achievements. I'd rank him as one of the best in this era but not top 10 or 20 in my opinion. So many aspects to consider when compiling a greatest of all time list and so many awesome fighters to choose from. My criteria has him falling short to other choices in the popularity and cultural significance side of things. I wouldn’t object to seeing him ranked high on another list with slightly different criteria though. And of the modern era I’d say definitely---I agree with you there.
Thanks for coming by
gr8 legends
well first of all let`s settle things strait Pac man has no chance against Floyd... Floyd is simply to fast better defense skills better rythm better foot movement the list goes on why Floyd in my opinion without any doubt going to win against Pac man if they fight... People who are campaining for pac man to be on your list he has to prove he can beat the best out there and the best is Floyd like him or not by the way i love him because his act its just precisly an act he had to come out with a persona and he did probably he watched to many Ali videos...i kind of agree with your list i just think Ali should be at number 1 because his bigger than boxing...Roy Jones should be on the list instead of Marciano you are so right about him in my opinion he is over rated like Joe Calzaghe similar storry...
Missed you there gera,
I apologize for that. But Roy Jones is on the 11-20 list and the link is below. And as for the rest I'm sorry, Valuev, Hatton or the Klitchko's don't belong on a top 10 or 20 greatest of all time list man. Good fighters worthy of respect, but never would any of them rank so high as top 10,20 or 30 of all time.
Thanks for stopping by man
no one can beat rocky marciano he was the best he never lost a fight i dont care what any one says.
he is the all time GREAT BEST BOXER
WE ALL LOVE YOU ROCKY
R.I.P MY FRIEND XX
druhepkins- I thoroughly enjoyed this blog. It is inspiring to me. Equally inspiring is the fact that you take the time to respond to comments in a respectful and positive way. That is as impressive to me as any of these great fighters. Some comments are good, some are not so good, but you seem to "stay in the ring" with a reply comment full of gratitude. Man, I say that is greatness!!!
I think each person has greatness in their soul, it just needs to be brought out. Fear keeps us from doing that. These boxers are inspiring because they let their greatness out and ignore fear.
Thank you!
for "THE TRUTH" I do not see anyway Sugar ray Leonard is below Oscar. outside the current Mayweather/Pac debate I can think of no good argument for anybody better till you hit the Tyson eras ... and even that is a stretch.
Leonard's record doesn't compare to Oscars. In his day Oscar was the best in the world from superfeather to welter. He beat 17 world champions and has won 10 world titles in six divisions. He was robbed against Trinidad, Mosley (who was on steroids) in the second fight and Mayweather. I (and many others)didn't even think the Mayweather fight was close. He was too small for Hopkins and too old and weight drained against Pacman. Leonard's whole career is defined by four fights. Benitez, Duran II, Hearns I and Hagler. Duran wasn't there for the rematch, Hearns was robbed in the rematch and the Hagler decision was controversial to say the least. He was a great fighter but Oscar done much more.
I have to agree with you nsaxiom , I was thinking the same thing. I’m a big boxing fan and I have to say, this is one of the best, well put together lists out there. I will take it a step further and say I do actually agree with most of his comments. I don’t really see a bad one that I didn’t agree with. This author knows what he’s talking about. What people may disagree with is most likely just a matter of opinion because they favor a boxer, like Pacquiao for instance, but that doesn’t make it a bad comment or incorrect. Also the attempt to stay with the comments and respond politely but assertive is also just as cool to see.
Good job!
btw, I think I'm with the_varker. Leonard definitely over dela Hoya. Beating Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran....no question.
Hey Jezza,
It sounds like you’re pretty committed to that opinion about Marciano whether it’s true or not. You said it yourself---you don’t care. I won’t beat a dead horse but I do thank you for coming by and commenting. I will say Marciano was good guy and humble. He was never his own hype man and he was a gentleman and good friend to a lot fighters like Ezzard Charles who lost to him. Thanks again for coming by jezza.
Thank you very much nsaxiom. Comments such as yours make me glad I spent as much time on this as I did.
Also love your ideology on fear---very true. Fear is a very crippling thing and the best of us learn to deal with it and overcome it, and yes---"stay in the ring".
Thanks so much for commenting and come back anytime.
Welcome back the_varker. I'm with you and Manuel Vega. Dela Hoya definitely built himself a magnitude that surpasses most in the sport with his boxing accolades, and also through his Golden Boy empire, but there's no way I'd rank him above Leonard as a boxer. I actually didn't---there both on my 11-20 list. Thanks for coming by again man.
Hey (The Truth). You’re right, the juice cloud does hang over Mosley and yes Dela Hoya totally got robbed in the Trinidad fight. That was the worst call and I was so mad about that. But how did he get robbed with Mayweather? He was clearly out classed. That’s a fight you have to watch a 2nd and 3rd time to get it. Dela Hoya was busy as hell and seemed like he was doing something, but couldn’t find a target. Mayweather however found him every time like he was playing a video game. There was no robbery, that was a one sided beating. It wasn’t a shut out bludgeoning, but it was an obvious, classic case of being out boxed. Mayweather couldn’t have taken the fight more aggressively very easily, but he only does what he needs to and he was winning---why brawl.
As far as the overrated division coasting thing people are making a big deal out of these days----that prize definitely goes to Oscar. Dela Hoya beat more world champions and in different divisions. But beating quality opponents, talent and showmanship, and ring supremacy---that unequivocally goes to Sugar Ray Leonard. Most of the greats that Dela Hoya fought and was known for were respectable, but losses. Hopkins, Mosley, Mayweather , Pacquiao----definitely a who’s who list but all “L’s”. But for me, it’s not a case of trashing one to praise the other---I like and respect them both. They’re also both on my 11-20 list. I just think Leonard definitely tips the scale his way.
I also didn’t forget I still owe you a response from above. I’ll definitely still will man. Just juggling pages.
Thanks for stopping by again.
Hey Manuel Vega,
Thanks a lot too man. That makes me feel great Glad you like my list, and my point of view.
Also with you on Leonard as you can see.
Thanks for coming by and come back anytime.
I truly enjoyed reading your very well presented and obviously very knowledgeable analysis of the top boxers of all time. Like Ralph Deeds I remember listening to the Louis-Conn fight on radio and watched many of the first televised fights in the '40s. I also am proud of my grandfather, Shamus O'Brien aka Michael J. Hogan, who was not on any top boxing lists but fought such greats as Benny Leondard, Mickey Walker and George KO Chaney. For what it's worth, I agree with your picks.
Manny Pacquiao in top 30 or 40 maybe.
Pacquiao beats Mayweather?Then he would be top 20.
Mayweather top 15.
While Vitali Klitschko top 10.
What I'm confused about here is you de-rank a fighter like Rocky for reasons that he did not fight the best yet you have Mike Tyson sitting at NUMBER 5. Apart from the 'old' out of his prime 'Holmes' what legends has Tyson fought and beat I ask???? The answer is 'none'. Yet you leave the likes of Lennox Lewis, Evander holyfield and George foreman off your list altogther. Who did Tyson beat who was world class during his prime era your tslking about? No-one who anyone remembers apart from old Holmes. Bad call. And It contradicts what your saying about Rocky.
Nice list there. I usually rank Sugar Ray Robinson at No. 1 because I only consider boxing prowess. I see your point there and consider this a very reasonable list deserving the title "Ultimate List".
And to all the people asking why PACMAN isn't in the list.. even if he does rape Mayweather in the Ring he won't be able to enter the Top 10. There's a lot better boxers than he is. Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran... just to name a few.
Thank you very much as well William. I'm very appreciative these positive comments.
And that is awesome about your grandfather. Wow! Did he keep any footage or press clippings? I'd definitely be proud as well. Being in the ring with Benny Leonard is history.
Thanks for stopping by and thank you for that factoid about your grandfather.
I have only a few small clippings from the New York Times, druhepkins, but I've written about my grandfather on my blog and on HubPages -- See http://williamftorpey.hubpages.com/hub/Irish-Boxer
Hey KOkid,
I agree with you and I would rank Pacquiao, and I would definitely rank him in top 20 or 30 if he beat Mayweather. He has been impressive on many levels and is a cultural icon. According to the criteria he would definitely deserve it. Beating Mayweather would seal the deal and confirm that without a question.
Thanks for coming by
The best heavyweight of all time is Wladimir Klitschko. Americans are jealous, because, after the end of the USSR, when his boxers turned professional,americans never managed to win anything in the category of heavyweights
Vitali has highest KO% but is underrated due to his lack of being American.So at the very least I'd put him at top 20.
Jack Dempsey lost his first few fights because he was a hobo living on the roads and had nothing to eat,he was fit to fight he would have had a record of 70-2(65 KOs)if you count his second lose to Gene.
Jack Johnson on the other hand is rated above Tyson and Dempsey,not my opinion but I respect it.
What the hell you forgot manny pacquiao and floyd money mayweather
how is mike tyson the only unified heavyweight champ? what about lennox lewis or evander to name a few..
first and youngest...got it, sorry bout that... great list!!!
getting stronger and bigger doesn't necesarily mean the pacman is using steroids. It's called hard work man.. I respect the fact that you Try not to be bias, but it's obvious ur slightly bias towards mayweather... But I agree with you tho, I would even giv 60 to mayweather and 40 to pacman wen they meet.. But it will b funny bcz the little guy wil b the agresor Chasing the big guy.like wat u predicted. Lastly mayweather is selfish, doesn't giv a sh!t bout the fans..he's willing to giv a boring fyt just to win...kinda ironic bcz showmanship is in ur criteria... Unlike pacquiao.... Sorry dru, but that's my opinion..
Hey Leonard,
I don’t think the nationalism thing or American favoritism is the issue here. The Klitchko’s are huge men, and pretty good boxers in an era in which the division sucks. The division is also boring as hell at the moment and taking a back seat to the smaller divisions where the action is at.
The Klitchko’s are respectable---but wouldn’t be fighting Ali’s, Foreman’s, Ken Norton’s, Tyson’s or even Lennox Lewis’s and be as successful as they are now chilling on top as champs. In fact Lennox Lewis already tossed Vitali a beating years ago and knocked him out before he retired. And both Klitchko’s have been knocked out by “ok” Americans who just fought a good aggressive fight. Be real man, that’s all I ask of boxing fans no matter who you like.
The Klitchko’s are good but no where near contention for GOAT status.
thanks for coming by.
Howdy Mr. druhepkins
To be fair Lennox never knocked out Vitali. Vitali was knocking Lennox all over the place and was stopped on cuts. I think Lennox would've knocked him out in the end but we'll never know. Also his loss to Byrd was because of a shoulder injury and not a knock out. Vitali is a very good heavy and he's never been knocked out by anyone. In my opinion he's maybe even worth a spot in the top ten. The only thing is, as you say, the divisionis so weak. He's never going to have anyone to prove himself against. You're right about Wladimir. He is a good to average heavyweight at best. He's been knocked out by average heavyweights. I disagree about Norton though. He was a good heavyweight but not a great. He wouldn't have beaten Vitali. Wladimir would've been a reasonable match up for Norton. He was famous only because Ali couldn't work out his style. He accomplished very little otherwise.
who about Chuck Wepner he is my favorite
iam great fan of rocky marciano and khan
Hey Simon,
Sorry I skipped you in the cue. Anyway, let’s think comparatively; During Rocky's reign, Marciano had bloody face all out wars with old fighters like Archie Moore and was dropped to a knee many times, but he did come back and won with his power. During Tyson's reign however, Tyson disposed of most of his competition within minutes. Tyson was a KO sensation and skipped the paper champ nonsense.
What Tyson haters don’t realize is that Tyson still fought in one of the last years of what was still a very strong heavyweight field. Not everyone a fighter beats has to be another hall of fame legend in order to get respect. When Tyson fought, guys like Trevor Burbick, Razor Ruddock, Michael Spinks and an older but still relevant Larry Holmes were all excellent fighters who would blow right through the heavyweight field today. Tyson swatted them all down and put all the belts on his waist. No it wasn’t the 70’s, but Tyson was eating respectable fighters like tic tacs and knocking pro veterans out in the 1st round. Even an old pro like Larry Holmes, who has never been knocked down in a fight in his life got KO’ed early by Tyson, and it was the 1st of his career and only. Again, a legend who WAS NEVER KNOCKED DOWN BY ANYONE got KO'ed clean by Tyson in 4. And Spinks was an UNDEFEATED champion who was still relatively young. Again, a multidivisional champ who NEVER LOST A FIGHT got KO’ed by Tyson in 91 seconds IN THE FIRST ROUND. Comparatively, Tyson had a more impressive impact and arrival than most, including Marciano.
The other gaping hole in your point was this: Michael Spinks and Larry Holmes were both acclaimed ring legends in their 30’s, same as Joe Walcott, Louis and Ezzard Charles when Marciano fought them. They were Marciano’s biggest names and his biggest claim to fame. The best guys and biggest names Marciano fought were old, declining, and in their late 30’s, and he had battles with them. Same for Tyson but he obliterated them in minutes and showed them that they were old. So how exactly are you making a case against Tyson with a mirroring situation?
Like Marciano, Tyson had the punching power, but unlike Marciano he also had amazing speed, boxing ability and finesse too.
Some people don’t even think he should be in a top 20. All things considered Marciano is appropriately ranked where he is.
You’re one of many people who keep holding Tyson to a stricter standard just because it’s Tyson, and over exaggerating his fall from grace while spitting on what his true worth is and what he’s already done. 4 YEARS after Tyson KO’ed Holmes and dropped early, Holmes fought Holyfield and the fight competitively went the 12 round distance. Point being when Tyson was ready, he couldn’t be matched or messed with. By the time he fought Lewis and Holyfield he was already done and I understand that----all there is to it.
You and many others don't like or respect Tyson. I get it. But in the end you have to.
Regardless what you think, Tyson was undefeated his for his 1st 20 fights and won most of them in the 1st round. He finished the rest of his wins mostly very early too, unified the belts, and captivated the minds of boxing fans permanently. I keep reiterating his impact so its not necessary to keep doing it.
I do respect your argument however and I do appreciate your contribution to my page.
Hey KOkid,
Again like I mentioned above, I don't think Americans are hating on the Eastern Europeans. A great champ is a great champ. It's just that the division is uneventful and weak, so no one cares. Even if the division was weak, but there was a KO sensation knocking people out left and right, people would love it and still rate him among the best---but that's not happening. The Klitchko's are strategically boxing every contender, employing the same method of keeping fighters away with their hugeness and reach, then seizing opportunities when the fighter is spent. And even though their usually on the winning end, they still had trouble with average fighters. No one is hating, we just haven't seen much.
Very true about Dempsey. before he came into his own he fought when and wherever he could for a buck and it definitely compromised the outcome a some fights.
As for Johnson being ranked higher than Johnson and Tyson,---there was more epic sensationalism with Jack Johnson. Johnson was the first black Heavyweight champ that sparked all sorts of riots and fought the then undefeated hall of famer James J. Jeffries in one of the hugest fights in boxing. But you did say you respected it, just explaining my reasoning.
Thank you for your contributions man and keep coming back anytime.
Hey codykokidz.inc,
Thanks for coming by as well. Nothing was forgotten. Both Manny and Floyd will definitely be ranked in the top 50 of all time, just not top ten for either of them on my list or most. You have to understand they definitely are exceptional fighters and already legends, but there have been many throughout boxing history who were also extraordinary and the 1st to achieve various distinctions. Henry Armstrong and Sugar Robinson to name a few will be talked about and hard to top for what they did in a long time.
Hey Benny,
Thanks for coming by, the self correction, and for the compliment. Glad you liked the list man.
Howdy
I judge a fighter's greatness mostly by what they accomplished and how good they were at their best. When a fighter is past their best, defeats aren't as significant. The old fighter who lost is not the same man as the young fighter they were before. This is true of all the greats who fought on too long. Chavez, Leonard, Ali, Duran. Not one of them were so great that they could beat the clock. Time got all of them in the end and they lost to men who were nowhere near their equal as younger men.
Mike Tyson is different because he was past his best at such a young age. I think he was at his peak for the Spinks fight and was never that good again. His head was never right again. I rate Tyson as 6th best heavyweight of all time but that's just an opinion. I know many people who rate him higher. At their best Marciano or Dempsey wouldn't have lasted a round with Tyson (my opinion only) and Louis or Johnson probably would've lasted 5 or 6 rounds at their best.
At his peak no one could even give Tyson a decent work out. He was champion at 19 but unfortunately he was past his best by the time he was 23. None of his defeats have any real meaning in the grand scheme of things because the Tyson who lost wasn't anywhere near the "great" fighter he was before. I would say that even though i rate Ali as the best heavyweight of all time i wouldn't bet my last penny that a peak Ali would've beaten a peak Tyson. Tyson really was that good. That's my opinion anyway.
I LIKE THE LIST AND YOUR REASONS FOR DOING SO.SURPRISED TO SEE CHAVEZ ON THE LIST. KNOWONE SEE'S CHAVEZ AS ONE OF THE BEST OF ALL TIME BUT, YOU DID. SHOWS YOU KNOW ABOUT BOXING. EVERYBODY CRITICIZES YOU FOR TYSON BUT AT THE TIME EVERYBODY COULDN'T WAIT TO SEE HIM FIGHT. AFTER ALL THE BAD STUFF THAT HAPPENED TO HIM NOW EVERYBODY IS MAD AT HIM MAYBE BECAUSE THEY EXPECTED MORE FROM HIM.SALVADOR SANCHEZ WOULD OF BEEN GREAT I MEAN GOAT. NOW I'M HOPING CANELO CAN STEP UP HIS GAME IF AND WHEN HE DOES EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW WHO HE IS BUT UNTIL THEN HE'S GOT LOTS OF WORK AHEAD OF HIM. . I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT MANNY PACQUIAO WILL BE ON THE LIST WHEN HE RETIRES WIN OR LOSE (WITH MAYWEATHER)IF INDEED THE FIGHT HAPPENS. FLOYD NEEDS TO FIGHT PACQUIAO PERIOD.
U don't know nothing about boxe, Mike Tyson in 5th, Mike Tyson is nothing a top 20, he is a top 50+, below the ranking of ESPN, this is a ranking!
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
18. Archie Moore
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson
Dru,
I'm certainly not the Tyson fan that you are but touting the Holmes and Spinks fights is not that impressive in my opinion. Holmes was an old man coming off an layoff. (Holmes was knocked down by Earnie Shavers and had the ropes not stopped Holmes' fall, Renaldo Snipes would have knocked him down, too.) Michael Spinks' knees were shot by the time of the Tyson fight. Most commentators gave Spinks little chance because of his lack of mobility to avoid Tyson's rushes.
To someone else who made the comments about Tyson's invincibility, both Teddy Atlas and Kevin Rooney have said that Tyson wouldn't have beaten a prime-time Ali. Like a lot of boxing's bullies, someone who isn't afraid of them unsettles a fighter like Tyson or Liston or Duran. Unlike many of his opponents, Ali wouldn't have been the slightest bit afraid of Tyson and ultimately Tyson would have mentally surrendered like he did against Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield, both of whom had absolutely no fear of Tyson.
While the competition of Tyson was less than sterling, Tyson's domination was impressive. He's probably the most explosive heavyweight ever but I don't think he is the best. Had Cus D'Amato lived and kept Tyson under control and focused, it is entirely possible that Tyson would have been the best ever. However, I can't give him credit for what he MIGHT HAVE BEEN.
Kevin Rooney never said prime ali would beat Tyson. He said the opposite. Just watch or read any interview with Rooney. Its astonishing that you would so easily put up incorrect information like that CommerceComet
Read a very interesting article that gives quotes of people who witnessed Tyson saying he was afraid to fight Foreman in 1990. This doesnt surprise me. I am a huge Tyson fan in and out of the ring. Love his mind as much as his boxing. But I always believed he would have a problem with Foreman. His style would just not suit. The fact that Tyson was aware of this shows the intelligence Tyson had. I believe Tyson would have beaten Ali (even Ali in his prime) Just look at the problems Frazier gave him. Tyson is faster, hits harder and can prob take as much punishment as Frazier. Its an illusion to think Tyson cant take punishment just because most of his fights were short. Just watch the two Ruddock fights and the Buster Douglas one.
Love the list. Ali has to be greater than Tyson regardles of my belief in Tyson beating him simply for the fact that Tysons reign was short. I believe Tysons prime to be anytime before he left Kevin Rooney.
Sam Langford the tenth best fighter of all time? With all due respect AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
If the klitschkos were born in the U.S.A they would be lauded as the the greatest Athletes in Sport, let alone Boxing. Everybody would be calling them the best boxers in History. They would be saying that the Klitschkos were decades ahead of their time etc, and Vitali would run for governor of California and win
Hey Slimvanjingo (formerly The Truth),
I definitely agree with you there. No question Tyson folded and checked out early. No one is debating that. But when he was on, he was on. Not too many even among the best that would've survived his fast movement, aggresivenes, and vicious haymakers and uppercuts.
Keep coming around man.
Thanks for coming by ZAPOPAN and thank you for liking the list.
I just like giving respect where its due and its hard for people to look outside their own perspective. Chavez is very relevant to the modern era of boxing and jumped to super hero status in Mexico.
As for Canelo, he's definitely turning heads, but has more to prove. He still a kid and has a lot more growth as a boxer to go. I'd love to finally see him face off with Chavez Jr. too see which hype show has the edge, or to see each of them step up to test their mettle against a Martinez or a Mayweather.
As for Mayweather-Paqcuiao, Floyd seems like he's all in at this point. Let's see what happens.
Thanks for stopping by man and thanks again for the compliment.
Hey Calique,
I guess there'll always be a "you" on every site: a guy to claim I don't "know nothing about boxe" because I picked 2 or 3 guys different out of pretty much the same cast and crew of boxers and ranked them in a slightly different order. I apologize to you for my ignorance and for not posting ESPN's list and basic criteria instead of my own.
Thank you also for posting ESPN's entire 50 name list (already published somewhere else)right here on my page for all to see and scroll all the way down every time. I may not "know nothing about boxe" according to your credential-less opinion, but you definitely don't know nothing about url links.
The think about trusting big corporate backed lists is it removes very important elements. "Slimvanjingo" backed me on this by pointing out your list has Sam Langford as 10th. Langford was awesome and feared, but he was never even a World champion with an unprecedented feat, nor was he world famous like a Louis, Ali or Paqcuiao. Their list follows a different criteria and they were trying to rank the best boxers period which I disagree with. I understand my criteria and why I chose who I chose. Langford deserves his place among the best, but he isn't top ten "Greatest".
Anyway man, your opinion is yours and mine is mine. I guess there's no need to insist anything on my end or yours. I do respect your opinion and it's a valid point as many have chimed in how Tyson shouldn't be ranked so high, but yes I do know a thing or 2 about the sport.
Take care man and come back anytime.
Hey CommerceComet,
Glad to see you back. Anyway, again its not so much about how Holmes and Spinks rank as all time greats when he fought them, it's what he did to them when he fought them. Neither of them have been before in their lives, but in the ring with Tyson, they got knocked the **** out. You try to build a case for the doubt but it just can't stick. You make excuses that Holmes was almost put out and Spinks wasn't ready but that means nothing and it doesn't matter, both were knocked out clean on their backs with only Mike Tyson.
People are too young to remember nowadays, but most remember the unprecedented excitement that surrounded Tyson in each fight.
You're strongest point is what you said last and i do partially agree with you. You can't acclaim a fighter for what he might have been. You're absolutely correct about that. But what you don't acknowledge is that with unified belts a 20, some of the fastest KO's in history and his own video game featuring only himself as the game boss---he already "was".
Hey David White,
Thank you for coming by and supporting the list and my choice. I appreciate it man.
That's an interesting debate, a prime Tyson against Ali. The only thing is Ali doesn't get knocked out by anyone. He fought a big, heavy handed Ken Norton, had his jaw broken, and still won. Ali took Frazier's monstrous left hook that shook the world, a shot that would've KO'ed anyone. It managed to drop the great Ali for the 1st time ever, but Ali's response was to pop right up within seconds and wave it off to the crowd. That was a shining moment for both fighters, and the world knew they were in for a show and a rivalry. Ali could take the beating, even from a prime Tyson. Tyson however would stand the risk of being outboxed, outpointed, or even out strategized by Ali. Ali was full of surprises and tricks. Tyson’s only plan of attack would be to rush him and put him out early with those infamous crushing hooks and uppercuts, but it’s hard to imagine Ali going down early. Even though I respect the devastating power of a prime Tyson, I can’t cast a bet against Ali. I’d have to leave it at a question mark.
Anyway, thanks for the support and come back anytime.
Thanks for the back up Slimvanjingo. I ranked Langford in the top 30. But not tenth in a top ten.
Howdy all
The side effect of doing a "greatest of all time" list is that almost everyone will disagree with almost everyone else. Sam Langford is someone who pops up on peoples top 100 lists a lot but not so much in top 10 lists. I don't rate him as a top 30, 50 0r even a top 100 fighter.
Here's my reasons. He was a heavyweight but only five feet six and a half in height. That's shorter than the shortest heavyweight champion of all time (Tommy Burns) and even a bit short for a modern lightweight. He had an impressive record (based on the statistics) but he was fighting a hundred years ago when there was little control over the calibre of opponents a world class boxer could fight.
He had over 200 fights, won 179 with 129 ko's. That's super impressive until you compare him to a modern fighter named Buck "Tombstone" Smith. Smith fought from the late 1980's right up until 2009. He also had over 200 fights, also had 179 wins with 120 ko's. But Smith fought most of his fights in Oklahoma which doesn't have a boxing commission. That means anyone could fight anyone with no standards enforced. Smith was top 10 fighter at welterwieght in his day, world ranked and fought for versions of the world title at various weights but never won a world title. The reason he never won a world title is because he wasn't good enough. But his record looks fantastic.
That's how i see Langford. Someone who fell slightly short (pardon the pun)of the mark. He is known as someone who was avoided by the top men but Jack Johnson had already beaten him before he won the title. Johnson's successor, Jess Willard, was a foot taller than Langford and much, much heavier. Langford would've had little hope of winning. And the next Hravyweight champ up was Jack Dempsey. Six and a half inches taller than Langford, 12 years younger, fitter, stronger. Who thinks Langford would've had a hope?
I just don't know why Sam Langford gets such a high ranking on these lists. He was a decent enough fighter in his day and was avoided by some of the top white fighters of that time but he was never the best in the world. Certainly not an all time great. Not if you base it on anything real. That's my thought on it anyway.
Hey Slimvanjingo,
The reason why Langford gets so high a ranking is because like Smith he had a stellar record, but yes never a world title. UNLIKE Smith however, he didn't have a title, but he WAS good enough to snatch one easily. The best always ducked him and he always got the short end of the stick. He easily knocked out guys who were already world champs who lost titles by the time he fought them, and some of the other guys he knocked out eventually became world champs after fighting him. But he never lucked out with a title shot for himself which he could've easily earned and in different weight classes. Also unlike Smith he didn't fight bums and townies, he fought all comers. He even beat Joe Gans. He even knocked out World Champ Tiger Flowers, the guy who finished Harry Greb, and Langford did it in one round when he was almost blind. He's ranked in my top 30:http://druhepkins.hubpages.com/hub/Top-30-Greatest
Langford was clearly of the best in the world, it’s just that the best in the world didn’t want anything to do with him.
Langford is definitely worth the hype and his respect, but there is a line you have to draw as far as how high he goes. Kind of like a Tyson conundrum. No he didn’t get to do all that he could’ve, but indirectly he showed enough so impressively to appeal to the imagination as to what could’ve been and you have to give him some props. No, there is no World Championship but he always be right up in there when the best of the best are remembered.
But I agree with you, no world title, no unprecedented boxing feat or record, no international fame or cultural impact, he’s good but you just can’t give the guy top ten all-time great status.
Howdy Mr. Hepkins
I didn't want to make my last post too long so didn't go into too minute a detail with Langford before. He did have some impressive wins in lighter divisions. It was unfair of me to only talk about him as a heavyweight.
However, though his wins were impressive for the time, beating Stanley Ketchel doesn't bear a lot of weight these days. Ketchel was a well known drinker and whoremonger (for some reason Ketchel is ahead of Marvin Hagler in those ESPN rankings. WTF, Stanley Ketchel the 19th best boxer of all time???). He was far from being what would be considered a professional athlete by modern standards.
Harry Greb and Joe Gans? I just don't see what made these guys all time greats. If you look at their records they're padded with stiffs from beginning to end. Gans, Greb and Langford have the same names popping up again and again on their records. Langford fought several people more than ten times each. One man he fought 17 times. He fought a multitude two or three times each. Back then there wasn't that many people to fight. You didn't have to be particularly good (in the grand scheme of things) to reach the top (Ketchel is a prime example). We'll have to disagree about Langford i'm afraid. But that's how these debates work. It's all good stuff.
He was better than Buck Smith though.
Thanks for the compliment Boxing Fan. Great point about Pacman too from a true boxing fan that gets it.
Hey jonathan. Chuck Wepner is a great fighter and one of many. Just doesn't make a top ten in my book is all. Thanks for coming by!
Hey AHMED,
Both great fighters that I respect also. Thanks for coming by.
Hey Slimvanjingo,
Now I understand more of what you’re saying and I guess the question being do those old time legends truly measure up to the modern day boxing stars, and are we paying too much deference and respect to the old legends than deserved compared to the skill and level of modern day standards. That's an excellent argument. I say yes and no.
With situations like this, you have to scale accolades on a curve relative to the times that is fair to all generations of boxing. Could Harry Greb hang with Marvin Hagler, maybe not. The sport is more organized as is the training entailed. Training facilities are better and coaches more knowledgeable. Plus there’s more to study and analyze and in better ways. But you have to respect the evolution of the sport. For instance, Harry Greb and Mickey Walker were wild fighters, but Joe Gans “The Old Master” innovated a style that they still teach today. Gene Tunney also was one of the 1st technical and strategic heavyweights who fought with his brain. Same for Benny Leonard. It’s a sweet science and it took all those guys to create the Mayweather’s, Andre Ward’s and Ali’s of today. The art form had to grow and it started with them. So you’d have to give credit their due comparative to their era. Some its nots so much who could be who of all time, but what they in their era versus now. In addition to the fact everyone was signing up to box ten because the sport was way more popular. The competition was there, but the field and expectations were different.
druhepkins
I think you're right enough there. It really is impossible to compare fighters from near 100 years ago with modern fighters because things were so different back then.
I suppose the only way to make a "realistic" comparison of skill vs skill is to ask, if you take a fighter of olde(such as Benny Leonard) and gave him a moden gym, diet and three months rest between fights (rather than a week)how would he perform? I think in Leonard's case he would likely never be beaten (possibly by a Duran, Armstrong or Chavez). With that kind of comparison maybe Sam Langford could've been a modern great. Who knows? But there are other fighters out there who are worshipped by the boxing fraternity and you know they wouldn't have made the grade. I don't know why i keep throwing this name in and i'm not deliberately picking on him but Stanley Ketchel is the prime example again.
I could be more controversial by saying i don't think Dempsey, Tunney or Louis would've been anywhere near the legends they became if they were around in the last 30 years. Jack Johnson though, i think would be competing with the best of them.
I'll throw in one more thing. Ezzard Charles. Possibly the most UNDER-RATED fighter of all time. What do you reckon?
Hey Slimvanjingo,
Sorry for all the horrible typos in the last exchange, almost changed the meaning of what I was saying lol.
Anyway, I believe in anointed destiny and I think those guys would still be greats today, but with realistic changes. Maybe they wouldn't be heavyweights, but light heavies. Joe Louis still was an amazing boxer, fast with stunning KO power in both hands. And it doesn't get any better than Sugar Ray Robinson; he'd shine and dominate in any era. That was a boxer.
But competition in sports does get better, there’s no doubt about that. But is Michael Jordan better than Wilt Chamberlain? Is Reggie Jackson better than Mickey Mantle? I do get what you’re saying though. That’s why in my list the other factors other than boxing ability and stats are just as important. I also focus on the man and the story. Dempsey was an American icon who had the 1st million dollar fight of all time. Sure there are many heavyweights now that could’ve beaten him, but he was Jack Dempsey. He helped filled the seats, give history, back story and culture to the sport they exist in.
Also you have to consider the psychology of the times. There are different skills that are learned now, but back then someone who was bigger and stronger wasn’t going to win necessarily on that alone. Back then, guys who were confident, used to fighting, and not afraid of getting hit had the edge. Not necessarily strategic fighters, but fighters full of grit. A different set of skills and attributes were relied upon. Not necessarily inferior attributes, but underdeveloped as the sport was evolving. Also, what they lacked in skill, they made up for in heart that isn’t seen too often today. There were little to no snooze fests back then. Fighter’s came to fight. Nowadays boxers strategize too much, stalk and dance. Harry Greb would knock fighters like that out easy because he wouldn’t play that game; he wouldn’t stop, and he’d throw punches from all angles until the guy broke. Rarely do you see fighters really go for it like that anymore, especially when the stakes are high. In that respect, the old time fighters get the edge so it balances out.
Had each of them been fighting now they’d all be trained differently and according to the times. Guys like Langford would still be awesome, but there’d be no jumping around in divisions fighting heavyweights. Langford would probably stick to fighting at welterweight or middleweight. Same for a lot of those guys.
With guys like Gans, Robinson and Henry Armstrong, it’s still easy to see they’d clean up in any era. But as for others, I see your point and it’s debatable. That’s why a complete and fair list of the greatest of all time should definitely include evidence of a huge impact on the sport and history.
BTW here’s the link again because it broke off last post. All those guys are ranked in it.
http://druhepkins.hubpages.com/hub/Top-30-Greatest
Anyway, I totally agree about Charles too. Ezzard Charles doesn’t get the respect he deserves because he wasn’t even truly a heavyweight, but he’s most remembered for fighting at heavyweight and losing 2 close fights to Rocky Marciano. Then afterward like many fighters, he stayed in the ring way too long because of debt and lost 12 of his last 23 fights. It’s hard to be remembered favorably after your career has been blemished by famous losses, followed by a bad losing streak. Aside from that he still is one of the greatest light heavyweights of all time.
Tyson 4 ever!!... there is a reason why everybody asked: man or machine???
VERY NICE LIST. ( In my opinion, tyson was the first, then marciano and ali)
marciano has the strogest puncher ever he should in def me nummber 1
Mighty druhepkins
You're bang on again there with Robinson. My favourite old time fighter. Who was better eh?
As for Ezzard Charles. I watched a tape of his first fight with Marciano and it was one of the most entertaining fights i've ever seen. I don't think i've seen two fighters so equally matched. In the end Rocky won the decision but there was nothing in it. I couldn't seperate them. I don't think the ref had to call break once. That was boxing at it's best.
By that time Charles was already past his best. Even though he was a former heavyweight champ he was, as you say, really a light heavyweight fighting out of his division. The sad thing is he's in the record books for having more defeats than other heavyweight champ. What most fail to mention is that as a light heavyweight he defeated all time great Archie Moore 3 times. As a heavyweight he beat Joe Louis who'd had a 14 year winning run. If he was around today he'd be unstoppable at light heavyweight or cruiserweight. He'd probably even show most modern heavyweights a thing or two. I think he would've beaten Bob Foster or Michael Spinks at lightheavy. He was an amazing boxer. He died of Lou Gehrig's disease at the age of 53. There can't be a god.
coooollllll
Great list I fully agree with what you say about tyson we are talking about a man who feared only god he was a fighter guys would be scared to try an stare out. moat dangerous an derverstating boxer of all time
Good list. Very complete. And I like the contemporary voting. Not suprised that Calzaghe is last in the voting even though he's a great champ, just never fought many folks outside of Europe. Love that you ranked Tyson as high as you did. And that you include Chavez.
Nice post, you just forgot onr thing though,
Ali, is the Greatest....
the list is awesome. I love boxing and i m great fan of tyson and ali.can u give me some important tips for being a good boxer.
Hey Antonio,
Tyson was awesome when he was hot. Thanks for coming by and supporting the list.
Hey jjj,
Although I would never consider Marciano number 1, I do respect him and agree he was one of the hardest punchers in the sport. Thank you for coming by.
Yeah he went out pretty rough Slimvanjingo. It's funny, from Joe Gans, Harry Greb Jack Johnson, Jimmy Wilde, Charles and others, so many boxers had tragic or painful ends back in the day. At least we've come a long way in procedures and treatment of ailments. The new battle is paying for it in this country. Another topic entirely though lol.
Thanks for the shout out ahhhaan!
Hey isd,
Thanks for stopping by and agreeing with me. The countless Tyson lovers as well as Tyson haters that hit the site proves my point every time.
Take care
Hey there Vincent Smith,
I agree. Calzaghe was good,but its safe to say he punked out and stayed away from real challenges so he can enjoy being undefeated, but he will never enjoy being internationally respected and ranked among the best.
Thanks for coming by and supporting the list.
Thanks for coming by David Holmes.
What can I say, I don't really disagree with you about Ali. For this list however, Louis and the WWII thing, and the 1st black heavyweight sort of tipped the scale just considering this criteria.
Take care and thanks for coming by. Come back anytime.
Hey utkarsh gorakh taware,
I’m not sure what you’ve heard thus far, but for being a good boxer, getting your cardio and endurance up is the most important thing you can do if you’re starting out. You’ll find this to be true with most sports. If your body isn’t strong and conditioned, you’re done, and you’ll find it hard to achieve much.
Start jogging regularly, jump roping and maybe some sprint work. You want to become a conditioned athlete that runs and stretches regularly and you’ll soon feel strong and capable. Eventually you can throw in some weight training but DON’T power lift, just get your body toned and strong for the weight you are. As soon as you’re conditioned and no stranger to sweat, you’ll able to go to the next level---and you’ll feel good doing it.
In any sport, natural ability is a blessing and an asset, but your conditioning is the more important other half that will make you shine and able to display that natural ability in its peak. Natural ability can’t help you when it’s dead tired and about to shut down. So get to running.
Then if you’re serious, I’d get myself signed up with a boxing gym, trainer, or boxing club---a good one within reach who can guide you from there.
Eventually however, regardless what methods you employ, you’ll find that your mind is the most powerful asset crucial to your success. Your heart, drive and mental commitment will always decide how good you’ll be and how far you go.
There’s too much to advise to you but this is a start. Good luck to you man.
mohhand ali mader chod which means in hindi
that he is good
What an excellent hub, although Sugar Ray Robinson is hands down the best ever.
Marciano shouldn't be there and Tyson shouldn't be there. They fought some great fighters, but they were way past their prime. And you must include either Duran, Leonard or Hagler, I think those three are pretty even. Chavez should be there.
Jack Johnson was afraid of many of the greatest fighters, and didn't fight'em. Therefore he shouldn't be there at all. I guess he's only there because he is the first black champion..
Roy jones jr. totally destroyed everyone in his weightclass, no challenge was good enough for him. His speed and unique technique was simply too much to handle for the average fighters he fought. The only real challenge he got was Hopkins..
I personally think that Robinson should be first, Ali second and Louis third. But they're pretty even..
Vitali Klitschko would whoop all of these fighters, americans overrated Tyson. If Vitali would came from US, they would do the same. Black are less intelligents than whites and its scientifically proven, i can even sent a link about it, so don't talk. And i'm not racist.
So, all what they can is to fight. But the black era in the HW division is over, since the communism ended after the 89'... Now, we can see slavic champions in the HW, they have a better shape, they are more intelligent in the ring, and also the eastern european boxing school is better for now.
The True? You're not racist? OK i'll take your word on that. But you're clearly not well. Have a cup of tea and relax for a minute. I'm sure your condition will improve (i'm not 100% sure).
Also English is a fun language. You should learn it.
Heavyweights: Light heavyweight:
1.Muhammad Ali 1.Ezzard Charles
2.Jack Johnson 2.Archie Moore
3.Joe Louis 3.Sam Langford
4.Larry Holmes 4.Billy Conn
5.George Foreman 5.Michael Spinks
6.Mike Tyson 6.Joe Calzaghe
7.Joe Frazier 7.Dick Tiger
8.Rock Marciano 8. Bob Foster
Hey “The True”. Thanks for coming by and if nothing else, I do respect your honesty in how you feel. However, I’m putting you 1st in the cue because you’re in dire need of enlightenment.
First of all, with the blacks mentally inferior to whites” shtick---Wow lol. Your horribly misspelled comment was exactly:
“Black are less intelligents than whites and its scientifically proven, i can even sent a link about it, so don't talk. And i'm not racist.”
Dude, I actually believe you that you’re not racist so don’t worry about that man. Being a racist may not be your initial flaw. I do believe you’re not too bright however, too simple to understand that you ARE a racist based on the extreme racial polarization of what you just posted. Belief in justified racial superiority, which is just a myth, IS racism. You also may be too mentally challenged to understand that you’re reiterating fictitious rhetoric from the 1800’s. People like you, who seem to have a stunted and closed sense of logic and reasoning can be very scary and dangerous to social discourse.
I will validate you, partially. I’m an avid studier of history, and believe it or not there IS research supporting exactly what you say. However, YOU don’t understand it, nor do you understand its origin or authorship. You’re making wild, asinine statements based on tainted research published in the 1800’s up to the early 20th century, released primarily so the veiled elite could justify racial subjugation. It’s now known as “Scientific Racism” and was mainly used circa 1880-1930. Its main purpose was to subconsciously justify and excuse European Imperialism around the world. Basically it was another global attack and an attempt to pacify the people with inferiority as European nations expanded and took liberties. Rather than be seen as tyrannical and evil, it was better to be seen as entitled.
At times this old “research” still gets reworked and updated by hate groups and other very small factions that often masquerade as reputable sources, and they omit crucial elements desperately trying to make the science relevant again. Sort of like “The Bell Curve” released in 1994.However, this “research” invented from European Imperialists, garnered from outdated, misguided and erroneous methods, has long since been disproven and abandoned. And it simultaneously embarrassed and discredited the legacy of its authors, as more and more blacks manifested genius level proficiency, like George Washington Carver, and when more and more blacks showed equal, as well as above average intellectual proficiency when awarded the same opportunities and education became apparent. Social, environmental, and economic disparities became more relevant to intellect than any genetic or biological differences. Racial inferiority bottomed out as just a myth. Society has evolved out of that mindset, not that it ever took hold in the first place. It was transparent and people can see it for exactly what it always was: completely false, misguided and evil. So basically you are a 21st century living “throw back” to a stupider era in time.
2nd of all, not to make this a race issue on my end, but simply to direct you back into your place, and to help you be respectful of ALL people, the fighters from the past to present that manifested the highest boxing IQ’s through kinesthetic intelligence, skill and strategy have been fighters like Joe Gans, Sugar Ray Robison, Muhammad Ali, Roy Jones Jr., Floyd Mayweather Jr. ---typically black fighters. So your point is a little bit confused. Now when you factor in fighters like Gene Tunney and Benny Leonard, even guys like yourself can learn to just leave race out of the equation because it’s not important. Don’t you understand that misguided people have been trying to imply what you just posted, and as for as athletics are concerned that argument has been obliterated by an increasingly large margin every Olympics since the early 1900’s. Where exactly have you been?
3rdly, everyone can see and respect the emergence of the Eastern Europeans in the Heavyweight division. No one’s hating. They are typically physically strong, big, disciplined and good athletes. They’re doing very well. But they’re not known for their greater “intelligence” as you purport, nor is anyone toting that as an expected advantage over black fighters. That is the most unintelligent and embarrassingly bombastic thing you could dare post on anyone’s page. Keep your shirt on and stop getting carried with insanity just because you like the Klitchko’s and feel they should get more respect.
Where was Vladimir Klitchko’s “intelligence factor” when he got knocked the f*** out by “OK” black American fighter Lamon Brewster in 5 rounds? According to you, they could beat everybody like Ali and Tyson but got put on the ground by Lamon Brewster. Muhammad Ali got KO’ed by…wait let’s see…..NOBODY. Also since your outrageous claim states that the Klitchko’s could whip all Americans, all black fighters or whatever you were trying to say, Vitali should’ve at least been able to get through an older and out of shape Lennox Lewis who was ripe for the taking---but he couldn’t even put Lewis down before losing his own face. Already prepared for another fight that fell through due to injury, Vitali had the advantage of conditioning and preparedness, and he truly was winning the fight. But Lewis taught him what it would cost him, in shape or not. Again, Lennox was out of shape, took the fight on short notice, AND was out of his prime----and was STILL man enough to face Vitali, and he STILL took Vitali’s worst and closed the show with experience with a win. And you have the audacity to claim superiority?
Lastly, I could’ve easily deleted your comment as it was unnecessarily offensive and alarmingly daft, but I like to keep comments like that on Front Street. They don’t bother me in the least, I just find them interesting and pitiable. Save your “link”, I don’t need it even if it does exist. I already know without reading it that links like that have questionable, unfounded sources and they’re made for idiots.
If you weren’t clouded by racism, you’d see it’s not about race or nationalism at all. Americans aren’t jumping up and down for the Klitchko’s not because of hate. It’s simply because the division is weak and the Klitchko’s are boring. Americans like sensationalism, great fights, rivalries etc. We know they’re the best right now. No one is giving them the fanfare of that the champs of old got because Americans aren’t paying homage to anyone in the HW division at the moment. No one is even watching HW fights anymore as all the action is in the lower weights. That’s all it is.
I do hope you come around to a better, more knowledgeable perspective in time. Race is a distractive illusion, and the more stock you put into it the less substance you’ll have as a person.
Thank you for coming by and your contribution, and I do wish the best for your growth.
Thanks for coming by gatautam, and thanks for the factoid. Take care!
Hey jonsswagger1978,
Thank you so much for liking the hub. I've been on your page too and I'll return the fav. I agree with you regarding Robinson. As far as boxing is concerned he is the best. I just factor in cultural significance as well which gives an edge to Ali and Louis.
thanks for stopping by and come back any time!
Hey Lars,
Thank you for coming by. The defense for Ali and Marciano is listed above many times. They will always have defenders and naysayers passionately posting which inadvertently proves my point.
As for Jack Jonson, totally disagree. The guy is STILL getting a bad rap, even after he vanguished everyone in his era, including(then)undefeated hall of famer James. J. Jeffries. Until, but don't want to root for him and find reasons to discredit him, but it's undeserved. But you're correct, cultural reasons do play a big role in his selection, on this list anyway.
I agree with you on Roy Jones, he's listed in my top 20. The link is above.
Thanks for stopping in!
Hey Slimvanjingo,
No matter how society evolves there will always be people with that perspective a little behind the times and slow to progress. You needed worry about it. Just worry about yourself, and that you never become infected by polarizing, negative, and self serving thought processes.
Thanks for the back up on that again.
Hey Martin,
Thanks for coming by. Your picks are debatable, but respectable as everyone's opinion varies. Not sure I'd have Louis below Johnson or Foreman behind Holmes, but to each his own. Thanks for coming by man.
Howdy
I won't come back to this subject again because we're all here to talk about boxing but i'd like to add something for young Mr The True and his "link". I could give you a link to a site that claims the Queen of England is a reptilian alien shape-shifter who eats human flesh. Honestly. You could make any claim on any subject and find a "link" to the site that backs up your claim. It's funny and sad both at the same time.
FYI, i'm not sure what the stats are these days but back in the 80's the only heavyweight champion ever to have a degree was James "bonecrusher" Smith. Was he Slavic? Are there many Slavs in South Carolina? Maybe he was a Russki with a good tan. LOL
Sorry. It's North Carolina.
Not gonna argue your "top 10 list". Seemed a little "modern slatted", but all-round great job
If anything apart from the great list I admire the commitment you show to this thread and the sport of boxing you clearly love. Peace and all the best man. This is what the internet is all about. Thanks.
First of all this is an excellent list. Very well written and great to read. Second, I’m equally impressed by the way you completely schooled “The True”. Totally reduced and dismantled him---and did it with class, knowledge, eloquence and a history lesson to boot. All I can say is “wow”. Really great stuff.
I agree Slimvanjingo, we are here to talk boxing. But it IS the internet full of free thought, so expect a clown to interject racial superiority and God knows what else into the mix lol.
And you're absolutely right, you can find a site to tell you just about ANYTHING these days. Only the intelligent and scrupulous care to ignore the nonsense,verify sources or challenge the legitimacy of certain claims---unlike this guy. I never sweat it, just have to show guys with claims like that, that they are the ones bound in a form of (mental) inferiority. No biggie.
glory to all filipino boxers.
yo are so nice boxers in world i live in india
why marciano is the 8 wen he dint loss , any fith
finally a good list very close to mine expect u left out Marvelous Marvin
why is it that u barely have any european boxers in this list. the boxers u have of european origin are americans.. why is this because boxing originated in england rules and regulations yet all u speak of is mainly hispainc and african american and some european american short sighted for a bloke who thinks hes into his boxing so maybe ur the one with the blinkers on my friend,, u have only a couple of europeans on the list im truly baffled how u have no europeans or even asians in ur top 20
I agree with your list except 9 and 10..Ray Leonard,Marvin Hagler,Carlos Monzon where are they?
Roy Jones Jr Should be on that list,most naturally gifted boxer of all time (nobody can argue that) he had great punching power,lighting speed, mad reflexs, SMART!, he was the pound 4 pound the best for years,won championships in Middleweight, SuperMiddleweight, Light Heavyweight, HEAVYWEIGHT! and now at 44 cruiserweight aswell. also nobody went the distance with him for 4 years, beat prime undefeated james toney! and beat bernard hopkins, virgil hill, john ruiz, reggie johnson... list go's on, first loss to montel griffin(Beat Prime James toney!) in a disputed DQ with was avenged by a CRAZY 1st round KO, first former junior middleweight to win a heavyweight champion beating 36 pound heavier John Ruiz! then going back down to regain his Light Heavy Weight ChampionShip beating tarver!( after the huge toll of loosing 25 POUNDS OF MUSCLE!!! Awarded greatest Boxer in the 90's, won silver (though deserved gold) at the 1988 olympics and was named most outstanding boxer! and all his losses apart from the DQ to Griffin came after his prime and John Ruiz fight! but nobody remembers him :\ f*ucked up like
Great list
Good list for only 10, but Ricardo "El Finito" Lopez should be # 11
I happen to know something about boxing. Had an uncle who covered the sport and knew Dempsey and the rest, and, after talking with him and watching all the great fighters down through the years, I've come to the conclusion that Roy Jones, Jr., is without question, the greatest fighter of all time.
whatever
Really enjoyed Reading the list *2 years late* I just wonder how the klischo's would do against these Elite Boxers. Glad you put Mad Mike Tyson in. I'm also glad you never put Ali number 1! I personally thought Joe frazier was a better boxer also conducted himself in a better way. I agree with the comments that Roy jones jr could be in the top 10. Just a shame that boxing isn't the same anymore!!!!!
Dru... this is an outrageously incomplete, and under-informed list. You merely berry-picked the most superficially sensational boxers--which everybody, including layman know--and fawning on their 'greatness'as if their press-success substantiates their true boxing skill. First of all, I do agree on some choices, but not the ranking. For one, what in gods loving name is Sugar Ray Robinson doing in the number 3 slot? Did you know that if there wasn't a SSR that there would be no "fly like a butterfly, and sting like a bee"?
Ali even mentioned how much of an impact that man has been to Ali... George Foreman? Sonny liston? Hell, if you're going to even go contemporary, at least highlight Roy Jones Jr. ugh bud, I'm just critiquing from a more realistic position.
Pacquiao is not pound for pound better than mayweather, if you go to ten ways to save boxing they talk about olympic drug testing due to steroid use and if the pacman is not taking steroids or enhancement drugs take the test? He is not a true fighter if is afraid to take the test.
How tyson is on this list Is beyond me..Holyfield and foreman should be ahead of him...and the author makes no sense..tysons handlers rushed him to soon to fight Lewis after prison??? He fought lennox 7 yesrs sfter he got out..what in the hell are you talking about??? And foreman was 45 not 47 when he won the title from moore..
I totally agree with your comments about Iron Mike Tyson ..Never in the history of boxing has there been a more intimidating beast than a young focused Mike Tyson,no frills just standing in his corner with black shorts no socks, hands held loosely to his side with those evil eyes just staring at his opponent.. they were beaten before the fight started! the way Tyson would get inside the reach of much bigger opponents and just open up with those jaw breaking quicksilver combinations full of destructive violence was awesomme and i feel in his prime no other boxer including Frazier Ali Louis or anyone you care to name would have kept him at bay... but alas his potential was never reached due to various things in and out of his control..thats the reason he is down on most experts top 10 list!! But for me the Legend will alaways be IRON MIKE TYSON
I'm my opinion Ali truly is the greatest. All these boxers and many others that didn't make the list such as Holmes, Liston, and Frazier are all amazing boxers. I also really admire LaMotta due to his amazing dedication and sheer toughness. However I feel Ali has something special that nobody on or off this lists has. The man is truly remarkable in every aspect of his life, he is the greatest both inside and outside the ring. By the way thank you druhepkins for posting this, reading everyone's opinion as been great, and of course there is no definite right answer all these men were amazing boxers and most were beautiful human beings. Again my greatest thanks to druhepkins, it's always great to talk boxing.
hi,
you seem to be a very articulate and knowlegable boxing historian. i particularly like the way you take the time to give indepth responses.i see your list and undoubtedly they are great fighters.however to have six heavyweights in the top ten?surely from all the divisions out there (including the origional eight)there could be more from the lower weights? i do understand the heavies do take more of the limelight.but as you rightly say we all have our opinions and no one will ever get the list 100% right.i myself am swayed by quality of opposition and favourite fighters! for what its worth here's my list.
1,ali
2,robinson
3,armstrong
4,duran
5,chavez
6,pep
7,b.leonard
8,s.r.leonard
9,paquiao
10,holyfield
i truly believe manny will be in most top 10 list when retired.
as for holyfeild i expect people may call me retarded,but holyfield was destroying the cruiserweight division when tyson was doing the same at heavy.then he moved up and fought an excellent standard of heavyweight,bowe x3 tyson x2 , lewis x2, my only regret he fought on way, way to long and his tarnished record is fresh in peoples memory!
btw, nice to post on a site with so many credible and knowlegable views!
to gary (2 weeks ago)
roy jones junior had amazing skills, but the greatest of all time????
the best he beat were hopkins, before he was ever champion. toney who appeared weight drained and mc callum who was over the hill. there were no great tests or rivalries and the quality of opposition was not very good.i would love to have seen him tested more.
Great list bro.Your selection criteria is perfect,I read here lot of comments & I would like to say those peoples who arguing about you list that player's are not bigger than game & game is not war.Definitely mike was & will be legendary boxer but as per your criteria he is fit on position in your list.I want to one simple example of Cricket: Sachin Tendulkar & Brian Lara are two great player(Batsman)of Cricket.Now cricket fans always arguing who is the greatest.Maximum peoples & all old great cricketer said that Sachin is best.But Lara was the most explosive batsman than sachin & his strength was more than Sachin then why Sachine is the best??? because of criteria,because he is playing since more than 20year,so many batman lost their form & they retired(Lara also) but Sachin consistently making one by one record & he is doing best.His age near to 40 but he playing good cricket than 20 year old cricketer.Sachin is the greatest because of accuracy in bating & improvement in technique for keeping unbeaten.My personal opinion Lara is best but in total criteria Sachin is the best & I have to accept this fact.
Sorry,I have given different example than boxing.Finally thanks for your list.I love boxing.My brother was doing career in boxing but he leaved because of financial problem.Now boxing is emerging fast in my country....INDIA.
Edwin Valero is the best ever... Legend.
I would put Lennox Lewis on that list, a great fighter and skillful pugilist. Hugely under-rated, especially it seems by American fight fans. Even thought he's been retired for years, I reckon he could still win a title if he made a comeback today, so poor is the heavyweight division.
Floyd Mayweather could also make the list, even though he is the most irritating, loud mouth on the planet his has all the skills to back it up. I would also put Sugar Ray Leonard on that list, one of my favourite fighters.
where is lennox lewis, prince naseem?
lennox beat the whos who of 80's,90's,00's boxing, the only person he didnt face was riddock bowe, bowe declined the challenge
naseem lost once and retired earlier probably the best bantom weight of all time and the most talented p4p boxer of all time.
joe calzaghe as well retired undefeated beat everyone in weight class over a 15 year period.
Hey guys
on the most part a gerat discussion except for those of you who insist on belitting others' opinions.. NONE of us know for a fact - but it's a great pleasure to speculate
One of the reasons everyone's lists are so different is that we use different criteria.. some are rating the Boxer's best and in those circumstances Tyson gets rated highly.. others rate the overall record (Sugar Ray Robinson is on top of those lists) and others rate the standard of opponents - Ali and Grebb get more favourable raps on those lists
The msot common names on all these lists are
Robison
Ali
Armstrong
Louis
Duran
Pepp
Langford
Sugar Ray Leonard
Benny Leonard
Wilde
with Mickey Walker, Julio Chaves, Marciano, Jack Johnson and Dempsey the others most commonly mentioned
Tyson is the most devisive with his ranking going for No.1 fron to over 50!!
Then you've got he modern brigade
Pacquioa
Mayweather
Dela Hoys
Roy Jones Jnr
so it depends on what your biases are.. my bias is towards guys who have overcome the odds (and I am concerned about the implications of Pacquiao's performance enhancement)
so.. to add fuel to the fire my top 10 is:
1. Ali (beat bigger men - something Robison didn't have to do as often).. fast, tough, geatest self belief of any athlete EVER, and perahps the best athlete
2. Sugar Ray Robison - pure genius and balance.. best pure boxer EVER
3. Manny Pacquiao - astonishing performance .. hope it's legit. what he has done should not have been possible
4. Henry Armstrong.. 3 titles at once - amazing one-off performance.. relentless.. he versus Pacquiao would have a fight for the ages
5. Willy Pepp.. record speaks for itself.. perfect style for his weight division
6. Sugar Ray leonard.. modern day Sugar that did the name proud
7. Roberto Duran .. madman.. brutal relentless pitiless
8. Harry Grebb.. animal much like Duran - what a fight THAT would have been
9. Joe Louis.. probably the greatest out and out heavy weight of all time but the fight with Tyson would have been fascinating..Ali on another plane to either
10. Sam Langford.. purely based in historical evidence that he was the best in the world between 1910-1920 but didn't get a shot.. one of the biggest punchers of all time
so.. let the debate continue
Everybody seems to forget that packman was ready to fight 3years ago with Floyd but for some reason Floyd thought it was time to retire. I don't buy that junk because there were more guys on the list and I felt a good champion does not retire when you still have a group of fighters on line. Call it how you want but Floyd ran from packman and now he's coming up with excuses about packman on juice. Floyd beat great fighters while packman destroyed them, remember that!
You have a fascinating site and I envy your total body of work with the knowledge and insights you bring to light. I am old-school, Ali was my childhood hero and I still draw inspiration from him on, yes, a daily basis. So, I don't really see him taking a backseat to anyone, but I can live with your choice of NUMERO UNO, the "Brown Bomber" as he was incontrovertibly a true American Hero, an amazing man and worthy of all accolades.
I do, however, cross swords with you on your choice of having "Kid Dynamite" at No. 6. You seem to have drifted off course here, to no small degree (a Rapist,a Thug, and more) and would like for you to reconsider Tyson's esteemed position at your illustrious site. I offer this as my first salvo...at the ripe old age of 24, Tyson lost his title BY KO, to an unknown with the first name of "Buster."
What say you to this, knowing that it cannot be dissmissed or erased from his resume?
I respectfully await your reply.
i dont rate ali that highly, i thought he was lucky against a lot of his opponents, he couldent fight inside, and he rarely worked to his opponents body.
Respectfully, you may need a history lesson...
1.)? Olympic Gold
2.) Shocked the World as a? 7-1 underdog when he KO'ed Liston, The Bear (Ali called him the Big Ugly Bear) Shamed Liston twice
3.) Frazier hit Ali so hard he snapped his head sideways, buckled his knees and sent him sprawling flat on his back with his feet up in the air...UP BEFORE THE COUNT OF FOUR!
4.) Foreman was "invincible." Ali got into his head and would do the same psychological damage to any other fighter past or present.
5.) The record, and films, will show Ali to be as great an infighter as he was a tactician. Have you never heard of "Rope a Dope" or "The Fight of the Century?"
6.) Ali was a Northrop B-2 Stealth Jet Fighter compared to any of his contemporaries, you should be embarrassed by calling in "luck" as having anything to do with his body of work. I suggest you invest 10 minutes of your time to view a clip on YouTube; Tribute to Muhammad Ali by Gorilla Productions. You will then have some knowledge and a lot more class. Best thing about Ali..his will was greater than his skill, and that's what made him the Greatest of All Time!.
anniversary of the death of Edwin Valero rest in peace...
ive been looking at various sites, looking at other opinions and always there seems to be at least 4 heavies in the top 10!
always we are drawn to the middles to heavies with the odd light/welter with loads of charisma thrown in...................imagine all weights were thought as equal, how would the following fare then.
galaxy, chang, lopez,yuh(not sure of the spelling, myoung woo yuh?)
I must say that I did learn a lot of stuff. In my opinion, I find that Muhammad Ali himself was a very motivational character in addition to a boxer. His style is just incomparable and unique, that I can't think of any other fighter who has even displayed a better one than his. I really enjoyed reading this - learnt a lot of new names I haven't learnt before.
When his country needed him Ali ran like a scared cat. I have 2 uncles that died in Vietnam, and although I hate war and never understood it, they still fought. IMO they were bigger men than Ali ever was so I can't put him in my top 10 lists. My top 3 fighters of all time would be...
1. JOE LOUIS - Incredible puncher, amazing feet, endurance, and had to find in a very difficult era black boxers
2. JACK JOHNSON - Dominated everybody. I doubt any past or former champ had to fight through all the death threats and racial barriers this man did.
3. ROCKY MARCIANO - I know he beat an old and beaten Louis and other great fighters past their prime, but he still remains the only undefeated heavy weight so I got to give him third.
HONORABLE MENTION: Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
i really dont want to offend. honestly, sincerely. but but if your uncles had never gone to vietnam, would you rank ali more highly?
i think fighters should be judged as just that, fighters.
i dont judge a fighter on what he does out of the ring, good or bad!
@bobudit - Yes, I would because I'm a vet myself. No offense taken, I respect your opinion but I do judge boxers in and out of the ring. If one took steroids in camp (e.g. Frazier, Jr) is that ok? If one took a bribe (many believe Sonny Liston did vs Ali), is that fine with you? If a boxer bites off the ear of his opponent (Tyson) then he should not be judged in your opinion? IMO great fighters like Louis, Jack Johnson, Rock and even Schmeling, were not only great because of their skills, but also because the MEN they were... In and Out of the ring.
This is a great list, but Tyson does not deserve to be in its top 10. Popularity means nothing. Tyson beat good fighters, but he did not fight the real opposition of his era untill the later stages of his career. We can blame it on his lack of focus, or we can give Holyfield, and Lennox their just deserved credit. It is also well known that Don King could not make a fight with Holyfield and Foreman, and this was before Buster Douglass. Foreman was the a contender at the time, and Tyson would not give him a fight. I have seen Tyson underated on many lists, and he had great power and speed, but he was not a good boxer like Ali, or Robinson, or Lewis. It is perfectly logical to see when his power diminished (and he was still extremely strong), he could not fall back on his back on his boxing skills. He actually bit someones ear off, because he only knew one way. He does not deserve to be in that top ten.
Greatest of all time. Harry Greb ...untill someone can change my mind. Sugar Ray Robinson could do it, and many others. I just want to lead with that.
I'd put James Braddock before Tyson anyday. Although I wouldn't put Tyson or Braddock in a top ten list, Braddock is still higher in my list. What he represented at the time, Great Depression and all - means alot more than what Tyson represented, if any.
Tyson supporters cherish his KO power...I just want to make this one comment on behalf of Ali and to set the record sraight. I submit Ali's knockouts of Sonny Liston and George Foreman...Now tell me who is the greater KO artist???? Tyson wouldn't/couldn't have the courage to stare down either one of those Champions. Ali had skill and will beyond measure...his will greater than his skill. His legacy is that he is magnificent and unselfish human being. Nuff said.
It is pretty well known that Tyson avoided an older George Foreman. According to Don King, Tyson said "I am not getting in the ring with that Animal. " Tyson KO lovers want to beleive he was invincible, but he never faced a George Forman. I met Joe Frazier and asked him about Foreman vs Tyson, he looked at me like I was stupid and did not take me seriously after that. (The only person Frazier was not able to beat was Foreman) Tyson wanted no part of Foreman, and he was 45 at the time. Watch the Foreman on Dave Letterman if you need to get a sense of what I am saying.
You and I would agree on a few things....Tyson KO power lovers need to learn about Ernie Shavers...a guy that was knocking people out just as quickly before HBO...I think Shavers has like 30 straight KO or something close to that...you should also pull up the Youtube of Jack Johnson getting flagrantly head butting and taking it....it is on youtube, or was...
Hollyfield should be rated with the best also.Look what he did to Iron Mike Tyson. What carmine Basilio and Gene Fulmer ?
I like Holyfield, but what he did do to Tyson was head but him. That was what lead to the ear bitting. I am not going to ,throw that argument "that Tyson was past his prime at you," because I don't buy that. When he was at his prime he kept delaying the fight with Holyfield. I think Holyfield is a great, but he never dominated the sport like some of the great greats. People ran to their TVs when certain boxers came on the scene, those certain fighters were thought to be unbeatable. Tyson, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, and Johnson. To put Holyfield up there with guys that were able to cause a frenzy isn't fair to those guys.
I took issue with the author on an earlier date about having "Kid Dynamite" rated at # 5. I asked him to reconsider his placement of Tyson noting that I felt he had strayed "of course" to no small degree on this matter.
My first salvo queeried Mr. Tyson's inexplicable loss, a KNOCK-OUT, at the ripe old age of 24 to an unknown by the name of "Buster" (who was a 45-1 underdog/the fight is rightfully regarded as "The Biggest Upset in the History of Boxing"). The author never gave me the courtesy of a response. Apparently, he like all others who are enamoured with this rapist and thug, conveniently dismiss this event as an anomoly...just like they reason-out and justify his personal conduct with women whom he violated on multiple occassions and ditto his behavior where he issued out physical pain by manhandling civilians on the streets after hours.
There is more folly in the author's portrayal of Tyson. He paints the man as a "beloved world celebrity" (an obvious attempt here to place him in the same company with Ali). Further embelishing Tyson's renown prowess as an "ivincible" he goes on to say that a prime "Iron Mike" would annihilate anyone on his list.
So, I have had enough; no explaination on the Douglas fight, and there is so, so much of "Tyson's been treated unfairly"...Damn, it is excuse after excuse...and information on Tyson that is erroneous and blatantly biased, distainfully slanted.
It is now necessary to set the record straight, with just the facts. Tyson is not the least bit deserving of the praise he gets in his article simply based on the standards which the author himself had set for his list.
Tyson is pitifully "soft" in a number of categories; i.e. the caliber of the competition he faced and the Douglas? fight are obvious question marks. Foremost in the character traits of Champions however is that they are in possession of "intangible strengths," i.e., "mental abilities" and? having the capacity to deliver on "tactics and strategies"...and most noteworthy of all...HAVING THE ABILITY TO OVERCOME ADVERSITY!!! In this world Muhammad Ali was? without an equal, bar none; this is incontrovertible. These were his greatest weapons, they are the strongest competitive advantage possible. Opponents have no counter strategy to defend against them. Tyson was one dimensional, no strategy, lacking in mental ability and certainly without a trace of strength in overcoming advesity.
Tyson supporters...allow me to blast some additional truths into your ear (in the same manner as Ali when he was delivering psychological damage to his opponents while in the clinch).
At his peak Tyson would look like an open cockpit crop duster vs. an Ali who was a Northrup B-2 Stealth Jet Fighter.
And for that matter let me further point out that before they ran into Ali both Liston (35-1 with 27 by KO) and Foreman (40-0 with 37 by KO) were a combined 75 wins and 1 loss. They were the true "Invincibles" and the "Baddest Men on the Planet" during the Golden Era of Boxing. BTW...Ali was in charge of both men from start to finish, and both were KO'd.
I submit, that with any one of these four CHAMPIONS (add a worthy Joe Frazier) Tyson goes from being "Kid Dynamite" to "BOY CRAPS HIS PANTS!!!"
This damn sure should clear things up for those of you who are grossly uninfrormed.
FuerteLady 2 years ago
I like the list! I'm not that heavily into boxing but I do know most of these guys and I have to agree. What makes some of the fighters great is not just the style of the fighting, but what they represented at the time. I think that is something to consider strongly. I think you've hit it on the nose. Great writing.