Top 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time (The Ultimate List cont. 11-20)
80Same as the other list, the boxers on this all time list were chosen for their respective boxing records, boxing ability and talent, popularity, competition they faced, showmanship, and cultural significance in their era. The true greatest boxers of all time should represent a blend of all those attributes as you’ll find in the selections below. Here is the selections 11 to 20 below.
No active boxers compiled, retired boxers only.
11. Roberto Durán
Record: Won: 103 Lost: 16 (70 KOs)
Boxing Era:1968-2001
Division: Lightweight / Middleweight
Roberto Durán was at the top of the elite boxing chain for over 30 years. For most true boxing fans, this man is definitely in the top 10 or 20. In short, he's a fighter's fighter. Seeing him in action confirms that, and the unique gift and light that he has kept in in the game for decades as his contemporaries retired. Durán is the only boxer in history to win fights with the world's best in 5 different decades.
Roberto Durán had all the things great fighters are made of. He had an aggressive fighting style, and always brought an action packed, exciting fight to the table. His first 31 fights were mostly crowd pleasing knock outs without a loss.
Durán was an unstoppable light weight champion who dominated the light weight division for 7 years. Eventually moving up in weight, the great Roberto Durán handed a younger, but rising Sugar Ray Leonard his very first defeat to add the WBC Welter Weight Championship title to his collection. However, he took a humilating loss to Leonard in the rematch which resulted in him quitting with the now famous words, "No mas.".
At 32, he moved up in weight again and battered Davey Moore to an 8th round KO and won the WBC Light-Middleweight Championship title. Durán eventually took rugged middleweight losses to Tommy Hearns and Marvin Hagler. Likewise however, Joe Frasier, another champion on this list was once an undefeated king, but only took losses to a couple of guys named Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. Point being for most legends, losses are just an eventual part of the game when you're on top, especially if you don't have various plan B dimensions to your style like the versatile Ali, Robinson, Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones or the rising Andre Ward. If you're a brawler with not too many other card tricks, the reality is you're simply just not going to out slug a Foreman or a Hagler or a Hearns in your 30's and beyond. Regardless, years after his prime, and after moving up in weight, Durán was still there for all of them and helped give those future hall of famers their credibility. Durán was a fighter who would never run or try to strategize, stay distant and box, or try to win on points. He always came to fight and went in full force. Durán willingly faced the best in the sport that could beat him at the slug fest game with youth on their side. As an older man, Durán fought the best in boxing in their prime.
For his entire crowd pleasing boxing career spanning multiple decades, Durán was always at the top and in contention for titles, winning the NBA Super-Middleweight Championship from Patrick Goossen in 2000 at 49 years old.
Roberto Durán continued to fight as boxing's elite until he finally retired at 50 years old after a car crash. Roberto Durán won title belts in 4 different weight divisions. After scrutinizing all the exemplary fighters that have come and gone, in this generation right now many boxing experts still consider Roberto Durán the greatest lightweight of all time.
Certain attributes that offer advantages like speed, power and agility fade with time for all of us, but anointed gifts are visible always, in intricate or elaborate demonstrations, or in short flashes. Like Micheal Jackson performing and shocking an audience with his voice and talent at 10 years old, or Tiger Woods golfing and shooting 'holes in one' on the show "That's Incredible" at 5, or the great Roberto Duran winning another world championship belt by aggressively beating up a young guy at 49 years old. Those anointed gifts are predestined for greatness, always great to watch, and we all can just sit back and admire them. It's safe to say that every man that beat Duran after he was 35 years old most likely would not be able to stand in the ring with him at the age he willingly fought them. Very popular among all true boxing fans, Duran is without a doubt an all time great.
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
Record: 36-3-1 (25 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1977-1997
Division: Middleweight
In the boxing world, Sugar Ray Leonard needs no introduction and almost single handedly filled a void in the sport after Muhammad Ali. Leonard was named "Boxer of the Decade" for the 1980's and was the first boxer to earn over 100 million in purses. Like most all time greats, Sugar Ray Leonard beat a slew of other all time great Hall of Fame boxers, and did it when it still mattered and meant something. Leonard fought Wilfred Benítez, Thomas Hearns, Roberto Durán and Marvin Hagler, and beat them all.
Leonard's rise to greatness in boxing was picture perfect and meteoric. He had all the tools: the amazingly superior boxing skill, the intelligence, the looks, the charm, the accolades, and was all set up to be boxing's new poster boy. Leonard won the National Golden Gloves and National AAU Lightweight Championships multiple years, and eventually an Olympic gold medal at light welter weight. Leonard quickly became the face and star of what many consider the best US Olympic team in boxing history. After he won the Olympics, Leonard announced that it was his last fight and that he had achieved his life's dream. Whether he knew it or not, boxing was far from done with him.
After the Olympics Leonard wanted to go to business school. However, a mistake from his pregnant girlfriend to try and get child support from him without telling him would derail those plans. Leonard was a good guy who also loved his girlfriend at the time, and would never have abandoned her regardless. Still, his girlfriend was young, aware of his growing success, listened to bad advice, panicked and preemptively---and privately went after him for child support. The press jumped all over it, twisted the story around, and Leonard consequentially missed out on many of the endorsements he would've had and was forced to go professional. The rest is history.
Leonard was known for his super fast flurries and combinations manifesting his speed and boxing ability. He was very exciting to watch, and was another boxing showman who entertained. He befuddled and frustrated the great Roberto Durán by famously winding up his right hand, then smacking him with the left. Performing unprecedented boxing tricks and antics in the ring with boxing's legendary best, Leonard confirmed the fact that a new star has arrived.
Leonard is most remembered for his wars with 2 of boxing's best; Marvin Hagler and Tommy Hearns. These were super fights in which many thought Leonard might finally be in over his head. However, Leonard had other plans and edged them both out with legendary boxing victories. These fights were action packed and went both ways on the score cards many times throughout the fights, but he came out on top. It doesn't get any better than that: Leonard was boxing's golden boy head and shoulders above the rest, new talent emerged and seemed to be entities that would finally bring him down to earth, but he went to war and he beat them too.
Before the boxing world audaciously attempts to crown new kings of an era like Ali, Joe Louis or Sugar Ray Robinson, the world needs to know a few things first: Yes you can masterfully befuddle and dominate most, but can you be a true champion and beat a true threat? As you comfortably rake in millions for what we think you are, can you put it all on the line, remove all doubts and face an equally legendary opposing force that could end it all by humbling knock out? Like the aforementioned greats, Leonard did just that, answered all of those lingering questions in the ring, and he won. In very suspenseful, action packed rounds, Leonard survived the viscous and brutal best attacks from the great Hearns and Hagler---and Duran, and the old Olympic gold medalist dug deep and some how beat them too.
No longer was he the talented, but somewhat glorified pretty boy coasting through exhibitions. Putting his cash cow name to the test, he became a knight, hero and boxing legend who went into the trenches and slayed dragons. After besting all of these juggernauts in boxing with the world in his hand already, there is no question Sugar Ray Leonard is one of the best of all time.
Leonard is still a very visible fixture and point of reference in Pop culture seen in countless TV shows and movies.
13. Archie Moore
Record: 183-24-10-1 (131 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1938-1963
Division: Light Heavyweight
Archie Moore is a special fighter with many unique distinctions: Nicknamed "The Old Mongoose", Archie Moore has one of the longest careers in boxing. And at 48 years old, Moore was the oldest Light Heavyweight champion in boxing history, and he also has the most knockouts than any other boxer in history.
Moore moved up from middleweight to light heavyweight, but was still continuously passed over for title shots. Moore fought the best of the best his entire career, but finally got his first title shot at 39, an age when most fighters would've long been finished. And at 39 years old, he outpointed Joe Maxim to take the Light Heavyweight Championship. Moore held onto this Light Heavyweight crown for almost a decade.
In 1955, the ambitious 42 year old Moore attempted to move up in weight and take the Heavyweight crown from Rocky Marciano. Moore even dropped Marciano early in the fight, but Marciano rallied back and stopped him in the 9th.
Moore won most of his 220 fights, but he was a light heavyweight who lost taking on some heavy weight notables like Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson and then Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali). Muhammad Ali rhymed that "Moore would go down in four", and he did just that. The bigger men were a tougher challenge for Moore.
Archie Moore is also the only boxer to have fought competitively through the eras of Joe Louis, Marciano and Muhammad Ali. Moore was a well known staple in boxing for a very long time, and has been ranked by reputable boxing site, Boxrec, the best pound for pound boxer of all time.
Moore went on to have a successful acting career and can be seen in several memorable roles. He was also an activist who supported many African American causes.
14. George Foreman
Record: 76-5 (68 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1969-1997
Division: Heavyweight
"Big" George Foreman is an Olympic gold medalist who started his professional boxing career as a human wrecking ball. In his first 40 fights, he was undefeated and won 37 of those fights by way of crushing knock out. Ranked 4th by Ring Magazine, George Foreman is known as one the hardest hitters of all time.
Foreman banged his way right up to the heavyweight championship belt, plowing through Joe Frasier as if he was a small nuisance to swat away. Before the fight, Frasier was the undefeated heavyweight champ, and favorite to win. Frasier got knocked down 6 times in 2 rounds. Frasier is a warrior who kept getting up and kept on trying until the referee had to stop the fight. Foreman continued to impress in his title defenses, knocking out Puerto Rican Heavyweight champion José Roman in 2 minutes, one of the fastest in boxing history. He also disposed of the highly decorated Hall of Famer Ken Norton in 2 rounds. Foreman was easily swatting down the top ranked fighters in boxing during the sport's most competitive era of heavyweights. George Foreman was an unstoppable force to be reckoned with, and the clear man on top of the chain.
Foreman's first loss was handed to him of course by the great Muhammad Ali who outsmarted him in the famous "Rumble in the Jungle". Ali employed his "rope-a-dope" strategy and allowed Foreman to pummel him until he punched and tired himself out. Foreman bit the bait and Ali seized him and knocked him out in the 8th. Ali took the Heavyweight title from Foreman, winning the title an unprecedented 3rd time.
After the Rumble in the Jungle, Foreman regrouped after some time off and continued his winning ways 2 years later. His come back was a fight against another man Ali had defeated, Ron Lyle. Throughout the action packed fight they both knocked each other to the canvass and traded vicious haymakers until Foreman came away with the KO victory. The Fight was billed as "The Fight of the Year". Foreman won 4 of his next 5 fights and won them by KO. The 5th was a decision loss to Jimmy Young. Foreman retired after this fight at 28 years old and a record of 45-2 because he found God and became a minister.
A different, older, newer, and more jovial Foreman shocked the boxing world 10 years later anouncing he was returning to the ring at 38 years old. Foreman looked heavy and out of shape and many thought his comeback would end bad, but he kept knocking fighters out clean and silencing the critics. Following the path of Archie Moore, Foreman was surprisingly still a very relevant fighter winning most of his fights by knock out. Foreman's style changed and kept him on top. He could no longer throw fast combinations, but he still landed extremely powerful blows and took his time, which enabled him to go the distance in a way he never could before in the past.
In 1994 at 45 years old, Foreman remarkably knocked out Michael Moorer to win the heavyweight crown once again, the same belt he lost 20 years prior to Muhammad Ali. George Foreman became the oldest heavyweight champion in boxing history.
Foreman later became a successful entrepreneur with his George Foreman Grill and several other successful ventures. George Foreman remains one of the most famous boxers in the world.
15. Benny Leonard
Record: 85-5-1 (69 KOs) and 121 no-decisions
Boxing Era: 1911-1932
Division: Lightweight
Benny Leonard is the longest reigning lightweight champion in history. He is also featured in the top ten best boxers of all time on most lists.
Leonard has been compared to Muhammad Ali in that he was champion at a time when the division was no walk in the park. In the teens and twenties, boxing along with baseball, was the most popular sport in America, and it was stacked with talent.
Leonard fought a slew of great champions including Johnny Dundee (Featherweight champion 1922-1923, 1923-1924 and Jr. Lightweight champion 1921-1923 and 1923-1924), Freddie Welsh (Lightweight champion 1914-1916), Willie Ritchie (lightweight champion 1912-1914), Johnny Kilbane (Featherweight Champion 1912-1923), Rocky Kansas (Lightweight champion 1925-1926) and Lew Tendler, Ritchie Mitchell, Patsy Cline, Joe Welling and Charley White, and Leonard was the best of the bunch.
After beating all the elite fighters in his division defending his title since 1917, Leonard retired as lightweight champion in 1925.
After the stock market crash of 1929, Leonard returned to the ring in 1931 and he won 18 straight fights with 1 draw. He retired after he finally lost to Jimmy Mclarnin.
Benny Leonard went on to become a popular referee until he had a heart attack and died in the ring in 1947 at 51 years old, 1 day after his birth day.
With a superior boxing style, a great record and great talent faced, Benny Leonard is still regarded as one of the best of all time in the sport.
16. Gene Tunney
Record: 61-1-1-1 (45 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1915-1928
Division: Light Heavyweight / Heavyweight
Gene Tunney was a former US marine who was the winner of one of the most famous, and highest paid fights in boxing history against Jack Dempsey, known as "The Long Count". This fight as well as the rematch were the biggest fights in boxing for decades.
Gene Tunney never fully got the respect that he deserved because he beat beloved American all time favorite, Jack Dempsey. He beat Dempsey for the heavyweight championship by unanimous decision twice. In fact, the only loss he ever had was a decision loss to Harry Greb which he later avenged with a unanimous decision win. Tunney was Ring Magazine's very first "Fighter of the Year" in 1928.
Gene Tunneys respect was slow coming because he was more of an intelligent fighter, and didn't have the charm or the brutal, entertaining killer instinct as did the the premier boxers of the day like Dempsey or Harry Greb. Regardless, he was eventually the man on top.
Tunney also beat other notable fighters also beating Tommy Gibbons, Georges Carpentier both by impressive knock out.
Gene Tunney beat Hall of Fame boxers, one of them the most famous boxer of his era, and finished his boxing career in style as an uncontested Heavyweight Champion of the World.
When preparing for their fight, Jack Dempsey wanted to pay Harry Greb $1000 a day to get him ready for the Gene Tunney. Greb didn't want to take Dempsey's money considering it theft because he felt "nobody can beat Gene Tunney."
Gene Tunney appeared on US stamps and has been mentioned in several TV shows, comedy skits and plays.
17. Oscar Dela Hoya
Record: 38-5 (32 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1992-2008
Division: Lightweight / Welterweight / Middleweight
Oscar Dela Hoya was without a doubt one of the contemporary super stars and biggest draws of the sport. He had the looks, the appeal, and the skills to stay at the forefront of boxing for most of his career. In both 1997 and 1998 he was Ring Magazine's best pound for pound fighter, and The Ring's "Fighter of the Year" in 1995.
Dela Hoya's impact on boxing is unprecedented to say the least. He won 10 world titles in 6 weight divisions, and he conquered 17 world champions. Dela Hoya also generated more money than any other boxer in history in Pay-per-view cash earning close to a whopping 700 million dollars. Truly "golden".
Dela Hoya got his nickname "Golden Boy" after fulfilling his mother's dying wish and won an Olympic gold medal in Barcelona.
Dela Hoya's career was unfolding in excellent fashion and he was on his way to boxing super stardom. He fought tested warriors in the living legend Julio César Chávez, Pernell Whitaker, and Héctor Camacho and he beat them all.
Then in one of the biggest pay days in boxing history for non heavyweight fighters, he faced Felix Trinidad who was an undefeated IBF champion. Dela Hoya smacked up and outclassed Trinidad in an extremely obvious manner. Regardless the judges awarded Trinidad the victory confusing boxing fans everywhere. Furious fans were curious to know which fight the judges were watching. The judge’s decision fell under very heavy scrutiny and a rematch was demanded, but never happened. Dela Hoya was robbed, perhaps because he decided to coast the last 4 rounds knowing the fight was in the bag.
Dela Hoya continued his winning ways still beating the best in Arturo Gatti and Fernando Vargas who later came up positive for steroids.
At middleweight, Dela Hoya went as far as he could go being defeated by Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather, Jr. In his final bout, he took a fight with Manny Pacquiao and it was clear it was over after an embarrassing loss. Analysts thought he was supposed to beat up on the smaller man but he had no answers for Pacquiao’s speed and aggression. He retired shortly thereafter.
Dela Hoya has become an even larger presence in boxing with his promotional company, Golden Boy Promotions. Golden Boy Promotions is a new staple in boxing that promotes some of the best boxers in the sport including Bernard Hopkins, David Haye, Librado Andrade, Amir Khan and Victor Ortiz. Golden Boy Promotions has also acquired various boxing publications like The Ring, KO Magazine, World Boxing Magazine. Very well done.
18. Jake Lamotta
Record: 83-19-4 (30 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1941-1954
Division: Middleweight
This list isn't just a bland assortment of the best pound for pound boxers of all time, but the creme of the crop that also captured the world's attention for many years to come. Jake LaMotta is one of those boxers.
Jake Lamotta is most credited for being the first fighter to ever beat who many view as the greatest boxer of all time, Sugar Ray Robinson. Even though he only won 1 of 6 wars with Robinson, each were great fights worthy of respect, and losses to the best boxer of all time.
In 1949, LaMotta beat who many considered the greatest champion ever in France, Marcel Cerdan, and LaMotta became the Middleweight Champion of the World.
LaMotta eventually became a bar owner, stand up comedian, and starred in several films.
Jake LaMotta became immortalized in the hit film by Martin Scorcese, Raging Bull, played by Robert De Niro. "I could've been a contender!" After this, LaMotta secured his place in Pop culture.
LaMotta's ranked as one of the 10 greatest middleweights of all time.
19. Joe Frazier
Record: 32-4-1 (27 KOs)
Boxing Era: 1965-1981
Division: Heavyweight
Joe Frazier is another Olympic gold medalist who can boast of being the Heavyweight Champion of the world during the sport's toughest cast and crew in the 1970's. History was made in every other fight. And the only guys Frazier ever lost to were a couple bums named Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.
Joe Frazier was a warrior who rose to dominance in the absence of Muhammad Ali. He beat a solid group of fighters and became an undefeated Heavyweight Champion of the world in 1970. With Ali gone however, no one gave him credit as the real champ. Unbeknownst to Frazier, this became the albatross and reoccurring thorn in his side that would fuel him for the rest of his boxing career.
Ali came back, slightly out of his prime and a little heavier, but still the crème of the crop. A Frazier and Ali showdown was inevitable, but these 2 men had no idea of the boxing history they were about to make. The fight was billed as “The Fight of the Century”. The fight was ferocious, suspenseful, and by far one of the best fights in the history of the sport. They each had completely different styles; Ali was a boxing technician who aggravated Frazier with pretty combinations and accurate blows. Frazier was tough enough to eat those combos and keep coming with pressure and an occasional and monstrous left hook. Frasier eventually walked away with the decision and shocked the world. This was the pinnacle of Frazier’s career, never to beat Ali again.
Frazier cruised to 2 more knockout victories and then had to face "Big" George Foreman. Although Frazier was favored to win, the heavy hitting Foreman dropped him hard. He wouldn’t be able to pass this test and Frazier lost the belt. Frazier was still able to KO others in the field like Joe Bugner, Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis but couldn’t beat Foreman or Ali again to recapture the title. Still Frazier won a place in the hearts of every boxing fan and in boxing history with his intense will and relentless tenacity. In boxing’s golden age, Frazier gave boxing something never to be seen again in a long time.
Frazier was still remembered and seen in countless movies, TV shows and documentaries for years to come.
20. Roy Jones, Jr.
Record: Won 55 (KO 40)-Lost 8
Boxing Era: 1989-2011
Division: Light Heavyweight
You have to look at this man's stats compared to any other light heavyweight in the history of the sport: Roy Jones, Jr. held a record 7 belts at the same time. He's also the only fighter to start out at junior middleweight, and move all the way up to heavyweight. He's the only boxer to win a Middleweight Championship of the world, and move up and also win a Heavyweight Championship of the world in 106 years. He is boxing history. The Boxing Writers Association of America named him "The Fighter of the Decade" for the 1990's.
Jones was an amazing force of nature. Jones won The National Junior Olympics and the National Golden Gloves. In 1988, he was robbed of the Olympic Gold Medal and was given the silver because of corrupt, bribed judges who were later suspended. As consolation he was awarded the Val Barker Trophy for the best stylistic fighter of the Olympic games. A new Olympic scoring system was implemented because of the infraction against Jones.
Already on fire, Jones began his career by knocking out Ricky Randall in 2 rounds. Jones blew through his first 17 fights all wins by knock out, many of them in the first few rounds. Jones was a new star in the sport in a league of his own.
Jones beat James Toney and Bernard Hopkins and became Middleweight and Super Middleweight Champion of the world in different boxing associations. With a young Hopkins and Toney vanquished in their primes, only much later did the boxing world learn what that actually meant and how good Jones was in his prime. In his day, Jones was too fast, strong and athletic; he owned the 90's, entertained, show boated and toyed with his competition, and could not be beaten by anyone.
For a long time, Jones was all alone and there was nothing left to do. In 2003, he moved up to the Heavyweight division and beat John Ruiz for the WBA heavyweight title. Jones was already 34 years old and accomplished everything he needed to for his legacy. However, the beginning of a fall from glory was around the corner.
Jones won his first fight with Tarver but would lose the next 2, including an eventual loss to the awesome Joe Calzaghe. The chinks in the armor and the reality of age started to come into play for the first time and a once invincible warrior was finally human.
Jones has a lot of unprecedented facts that make him special: As mentioned he's the first middleweight Champion to become Heavyweight Champion in over a century. The athlete for which they decided to change the Olympic scoring method. He's the first athlete to compete in 2 paid sport events in the same day. He played a basketball game in the afternoon, then knocked out future world champ Eric Lucas that night.
Jones has many interests and ventures. He was once on a minor league baseball team, he released a hit rap record, and he's an actor who appeared in the Matrix trilogy. Now he can be seen as a commentator calling the HBO fights with his excellent and insightful break downs.
Obviously not the same fighter he once was, Jones still beats the best of them and is still not retired with more fights on deck. Win, lose or draw in his next bouts, Jones is without a doubt a GOAT.
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Hey there Jandee,
That's awesome, actually and I'm a lil' jealous lol. A picture with Frasier gets more valuable with time. Is your grandson a boxing fan?
Hello Dru,
He is a beginner,Just walked him home and stopped to take pictures of the Golden Gloves boxing club in Toxteth,opposite a few young blokes were watching me take pictures and I asked them if they had seen the 'Evening visitor' 'We certainly did' they said ,then asked me if I had seen last weeks visitor,'Who was it'? I asked. 'It was Mike Tyson' they said! I was amazed and said 'Maybe it will be Muhammad next week !!-Glyn used to box years ago(husband) and zac is a beginner,best from jandee
I would’ve loved to meet Tyson too, perhaps the most misunderstood fighter. Anyway, boxing is a great sport that you can’t do well in without being in good shape. Good stamina is imperative. Good luck to him.
Wonderful hub.....excellent information. Thanks.
nice hub..i guess pacquiao would soon be on your list..haha..thanks for sharing!
Thanks so much for stopping by and thanks for the compliment gajanis.
Take care
Hey Toby,
I'd say Pacquiao is set to be listed. However, the world is waiting for a real test for him, a battle with Mayweather, or even Martinez. All the greats fought a true threat ie Leonard/Hearns, Ali/Frasier. A Martinez or Mayweather fight would seal his case.
Thanks for coming by and liking the hub man.
Cool hub. I'd heard of most of these guys but also learned a few things about the old timers. Hopefully MMA doesn't ruin the sport of boxing.
Hey there Doug, thanks for stopping by.
MMA won't ruin the sport---boxing fans will always be boxing fans. Some like Chess, others like Checkers. MMA attracts a slightly different, younger crowd. If anything, elements of both sports are in each and people could grow to appreciate both. regardless, people who love the sweet science aren't too interested in seeing people kneed, elbowed, or wrestled and choked out on the ground. They require different appreciations and one will never steal fans from the other.
Thanks again for coming by
Lamotta ahead of Greb and Hagler, this list is laughable.
Hey Billy,
Thanks for coming by man. I do have to say though, you're another dude of a thousand that doesn't read the specific criteria, and makes an incorrect assessment with a limited perspective.
If you read the criteria above, you'd understand this isn't just a pound for pound list. In addition to boxing skill and stats, popularity and cultural significance is also a huge part of this list---and a huge part of what makes a boxer "great", memorable and legendary. So yes, all things considered, Jake Lamotta, "The Raging Bull", who is a pop culture icon, who fought the greatest pound for pound boxer of all time (Sugar Ray Robinson) 6 times, is listed above Greb and Hagler, guys only boxing fans know.
There will always be folks lost in their own opinion. Disagree with a few choices----sure. It's expected. There are a lot great boxers to choose from that folks may prefer. But Laughable? I’d bring it down a notch---
Again, this isn't a pound for pound list. This is a continued assortment of the greatest boxers of all time who remained in public discourse. Suggesting Hagler over Jake Lamotta for a greatest of all time, you haven't made a point. Disagree with me, no problem. But calling a perfectly balanced list "laughable" just because you disagree with it while not understanding the criteria is just a tad bit over the top.
Regardless, I appreciate you coming by and your opinions are welcome.
I can't believe Marvin Hagler didn't make it on your list.
Hey Bill,
Hagler is a great champion and shoe in for many lb for lb lists 1-50. However for a list such as this considering this criteria, he just doesn't have the cultural icon status to crack a top 10 or 20 with popularity and cultural significance as huge factors.
Many decades have produced great boxers but they all can't fit in a top 10- or 20 greatest of all time listing.
I appreciate your comment though and thanks for coming by
Have to say what a great list this is. Considering the set criteria, i agree with almost every choice. Well written and factual, 10/10. Would love to see a 21-50 list.
Damn you guys really forgot about Marvelous Marvin Hagler and Tommy Hearns!! If that fight wasnt the best two rounds EVER than i dont know what is.
why is Kostya Tszyu not on the list?
he is the best boxer!!!!
how you can't have the great joe calzaghe on the list is beyond me. undefeted welsh legend. the greatest british boxer of all time
have you ever read about a boxer called jimmy wilde. sorry maybe not as i see your top 20 boxers of all time are 18 yanks and 2 next door buddies. you sum up what i would expect from a yank large head and we are the master race.that's why you allways come unstuck. by the way there are other lands that box you know outside the usa ps just to let you know wales is in great britain not in england as you won't know because most of you gun shooting gangster rapping cowboy dudes never leave your own land
Roy Jones Jr should be well higher on that list , his style, agility , reflexs, power!!! , was better then anyone. He perfected the sport! every fight in his prime looked as if he was having a sparring session, montel griffin II ooufff!
De La Hoya and Jones? They're good and I can see you wanted to put up recent fighters, but come on, they aren't top 20. And isn't this list just for retired boxers?
Anyways, you forgot Jofre and Holmes. They should be swamped with Oscar and Roy in my opinion.
I would never consider arguing with anything Muhammad Ali says, but in this case there's really no need to argue with him ,as I have little doubt that he got it spot on when he nominated Sugar Ray Robinson as the greatest pound for pound fighter. I also believe that between 1964 when he captured the title from Liston, right up until he was unfairly stripped of the title, Clay, as he was then known,was without doubt the greatest heavyweight of all time.
After doing a lot of research on all champions of all time, I can offically say Johnson was an overated joke. Couldn't go 3 fights before getting knocked out, ran from Langford and Jeanette as champion, only fought 2 or 3 good fighters as champion, etc. By the way, that "Nobody could beat him for 10 years" thing is crap, after he lost the belt he only fought handpicked bums.
Here is my top 20 list:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Willie Pep
8. Roberto Duran
9. Benny Leonard
10. Jim J. Jeffries
11. Julio Cesar Chavez
12. Joe Gans
13. Sam Langford
14. Harry Greb
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Sugar Ray Leonard
17. Archie Moore
18. George Foreman
19. Jake LaMotta
20. Gene Tunney
hey dru, well I found your top 10-20 boxers of all time list interesting and Im looking to read your top 10 list before saying anything except I do believe most fighters in the top 20 when matched up would have provided great fights whoever won. kind of like apples and oranges. by the way I'm now to be followed under gconeyhiden due to old pen name's unfortunate links to porno of all things. i'm going to your piece on obama's birth certificate as you got me wondering on that one. later, g
Why dont they have the great James J Braddock on there. After all he did to climb his way back into boxing. And to be the only boxer to have over 80 fights and never be knocked out once.
Just saying.
Hey man, good list but i'm afraid Hagler has to be a top 20 guy. I disagree that he was only loved by boxing fans. At the time of his reign, mainly later in his career, he was adored by the american public because of his warrior style.
Btw, it bugs me that you say every fighter has to fight a true threat like ali/frazier and you use this as your reason for Pacman not being on the list yet. i feel since he stepped to welterweight (basically since Floyds name has followed him everywhere) people have forgot what he did at the lower weights. Convincing wins over Barreras and morales, Marquez's. He is a great man.
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Jones isn't retired.
dru... i think it's time you talked. after all it's your web sight. come on why no word from you for a long time.it was good when the ball was in your court. but now try thinking outside your own box. eg if not us of a or next store buddies everyone else is shite. dru please feel free to talk.or are you a dj now in a night club.allways remember dru no man can serve to MASTERS
Hi Drue ! Just to say a word of 'sadness' for Joe Frasier,he looked tired when we saw him but he worked seeing his fans to the end,
jandee
Hi dru, well I have to put Sugar Ray Leonard ahead of Duran. I will always put a great boxer w great punch over great slugger brawler. some put him way up there well inside #10. by the way I won $10. on first duran sugar fight and $5. on first frazier ali fight as boxers sometimes need to see an opponent to figure them out. also i think duran won title on what looked like a foul.
Hey, thank all of you guys for coming by and commenting. Sorry I haven't responded quicker but I monitor it all and have read each response. And thanks for all of you that support the list.
Andrew - Qualms with Dela Hoya and Jones? Middle Weight Champ, Light Heavyweight Champ, Heavyweight Champ---reread Jones stats once again and think it over. As for Dela Hoya and his impact on boxing, he (Golden Boy) owns Ring magazine and many others Boxing periodicals, and also research how many fights are now promoted through Golden Boy Productions.
Nick- I understand Jones isn't retired, in fact I said it myself right there in the last line. However he was made an exception because it's safe to say he's done. He WAS retired, then reinstated himself to a string of losses and I'm sure he'll be hanging the gloves up again any day now, and should. An old fighter, over 40 who lost his last 3 fights, 2 by KO and is currently several months to a year inactive is finished. Especially in Jones' case. We've seen his best already and no further history will be made.
Kurtis Parker- to answer your question why Pacquiao isn't here, we learned quite a bit from Pacquiao/Marquez 3: Pacquiao is human, and Floyd Mayweather is in fact most likely the best pound for pound of this era---love him or hate him. Marquez can beat him and so can Floyd to an even more probable degree. I know Manny is a great fighter and a huge draw, but we're sucked into Pacman sensationalism at the moment, but the right fights would tell the true tale. That's all I was suggesting. Manny doesn't need to sell the fact that he's great to anyone, but to be among the greatest of all time in boxing history is a slightly different litmus test. Suppose I already had Manny on the list, then he fights Mayweather and Mayweather wins (as many feel he would at this point). That wouldn't be fair to Mayweather and people would call that a snub and injustice to have Pacquiao on and not Floyd who's undefeated and better. I would probably put Manny on for his achievements and, his popularity alone, but I think his story is not yet complete.
Hey Egyptian tomo, I'm flattered and appreciative that you preferred it when I was interacting with everyone, I enjoy it and believe me I'd like to, but I guess I should explain I'm in Law School at the moment and its a little difficult for me right now. I'll try to jump in when I can.
As for Calzaghe, he doesn't get too much props out west because he snubbed the west for most of his career, which meant purposely or inadvertently snubbing better fighters, and then did a US tour for his last few fights to fight Jones and Hopkins when they were old men for his legacy sake. I still respect him and think he's great, but he cut himself off from global recognition and world domination.
Matt- Braddock maybe makes then next ten. Just wouldn't rank him as high as the aforementioned.
Hey Jandee!
Yeah Joe hung on but finally succumbed to it. I was actually in Philly at the time. I was going to go to his funeral but had to be in NY. Great champ.
And hey gconeyhiden . I actually favor Leonard over Duran but it seems most boxing fans and analysts have Duran ahead so I took that in consideration. Him winning the belt at 49 and retiring at 50, and only because he got into an accident is pretty special though. Ranked in either order I'm fine with it.
I apologize to anyone I missed but appreciate the comments, keep them coming! I'll be sure to jump on them as they come in next time.
How about Manny Pacquiao, Barrera, Morales,JM Marquez, Shane Mosley, and Floyd Mayweather?
Hey Noel Saguid,
The guys you mentioned are all great champions, but they're all newbies from the same era. They have my respect and admiration, but I wouldn't put them on a GOAT list in the top 20. Maybe somewhere after.
Top 20 boxers had a little something that bumps them to the forefront of discussion. Like Joe Louis KO'ing Max Schmeling in the 1st round in the middle of the shadow of Nazi Germany as the world listened/watched. Like Ali winning the Ali/Frasier trilogy and beating an undefeated George Foreman with his "Rope a dope" strategy, all after his controversial Vietnam case against America they kept him out of boxing for 3 years. Like Henry Armstrong's unprecedented 27 straight KO streak while fighting the best of his weight class and up.
There will be many great boxers and everyone you mentioned is, but to be internationally remembered as a GOAT is slightly different. I rank those fighters too, just not in the 1st 10 or 20.
Thanks for stopping by man.
first point most super middle weight champs in joe's weight division were not from the us of a they were from europe so he would have no reason to go there.. second point when your champ you choose where you fight like your boys very rare you defend your title in another country...third point joe calzagy was no spring chicken when he fought jones or hopkins. by the way that old man hopkins don't look to shabby still world champ so don't give me that old man rubbish for excuses. still went to your back yard and beat them both... also dru what about jimmy wilde being in your top 20 because after all he went all the way to fight many times in the us of a..and won can't wait for your responce has you dudes would say have a nice day dru all the best for your chosen profesion what ever that maybe after all your from the us of a so you have the world on string and egos to match...
Thanks for coming back around egyptian tomo,
Your first sentence was way off and incorrect implying he didn't need to go anywhere or whatever you were trying to say. Calzaghe was primarily only the WBO Super Middleweight champ for most of his reign and there were other belts and top ranked challengers all over the place and in several other associations. Roy Jones Jr. for example had several different title belts all throughout his career, as do Mayweather, Pacquiao, and anyone else serious about being considered one of the world's best. I didn't understand your point and there's no need to spend time dissecting it. I'll just go into his last fights we're talking about.
I'm not emotionally attached to things and call things as I see them. Calzaghe's edge against Jones and Hopkins wasn't boxing skill or power. He already lost that contest as both aged fighters were able to complicate things early and knock him flat on his ass in the first round. He was able to out point them through speed and stamina as the fights went the distance, elements that mattered at the age he fought them. Jones in the 90's would've been a completely different fight and Calzaghe wouldn't have any advantages. Calzaghe beat Jones when he was washed up and just been KO'ed 2x. And he basically tied with Bernard Hopkins in a split decision fight that could've gone either way. No Hopkins wasn't washed up, but definitely had diminished skills and wasn't the same prime Bhop. Neither fight meant anything for Calzaghe's legacy. Bhop has been among the top ranked fighters for years, Calzaghe suddenly fighting him at 43 and slower, in a super close fight didn't win him any props among analysts.
You expect people to acclaim an UNDEFEATED super-middleweight/light heavyweight as one of THE GREATS that fought from the 90's to 2009 AND DID NOT FIGHT Glen Johnson, Sven Ottke, James Toney, Antonio Tarver, Dariuz Micalczewski, Clinton Woods, Chad Dawson, Arthur Abraham, Felix Sturm or Carl Froch? They were all prime and ready. And then Calzaghe fights a finished Roy Jones (and even had the gaul to showboat about it) and basically tied with on old BHop??? Everyone knows Calzaghe was good, but he was fighting bums in his own yard for years instead of real contention. In addition to the fact he never felt the need to establish his name in the states which also hurt his legacy and legitimacy. Lenox Lewis is a much better product of England because he mixed it up with everyone all around the world and was the true champ. That's why this side of the world loves him too.
Look how many battles with other prime time headliners other all time greats have been in like Leonard, Foreman, and others. What exactly is your convincing case for Calzaghe? An old Roy Jones picking up a check? Peter Manfredo? Byron Mitchell? Never had a memorable war with another headliner. He never stopped anyone important early, winning by going the distance and won on points with anyone with some sort of reputable name. Sorry, he's done nothing sensational. If you want to retire as undefeated top dog and all time great, this wasn't gonna cut it. Whether you like my opinion or not, it's shared by most analysts and you will not see your guy Calzaghe held in too high esteem---ever. Swallow that pill or don't.
As for Jimmy Wilde, I'd definitely include him, just not so early on the list. Maybe the next round 20-30. I think he may be the worlds first World Flyweight champ and has probably the best KO record in boxing, just a little low and the cultural significance/popularity side--- but as boxer he definitely ranks as a GOAT.
Finally, a great list with a guy who knows the sport and knows what he's talking about. I agree with you 100% about Calzaghe. He knew there was no one meaningful in his list of wins and came around to fight an old Hopkins and Jones for their names and clean up his legacy. Great list and I agree with most of yur opinions.
Speaking of opinions, what do you think of Canelo Alvarez? Is he for real or just hype?
Thanks a lot Keith Ramos, I appreciate you telling me that.
As for Alverez--- Alvarez grew on me. He's a star in the sport who like most rising stars, is protected. His fights are cherry picked to protect his name and draw, and you really can't know for sure if he's the real deal or fluff. However, it's not always who you fight, to some degree its also how you're winning that speaks volumes. Whatever you think about him, he's knocking people out and stopping them early. He just recently up-ed his stock by stopping Kermit Cintron in the 5th. Cintron is a good litmus and added to Alvarez's legitimacy. When you're able to beat up an elite fighter, drop him to a knee and stop him early, you've proven your legitimacy. He's also just a 21 year old kid.
I don't think he's ready for Mayweather though. He doesn't have too many tricks in his arsenal and he eats shots and mixes it up with opponents. Mayweather avoids the slug fests, frustrates his opponents and capitalizes off that type of style. Regardless, he's a big strong kid with power in his punch. There's also guys like James Kirkland that can beat him at his game. You can't out slug everyone and Kirkland would have non of it. Miguel Cotto can outbox him, but Alvarez can still rock him at any minute in the fight and run away with it. I think he would lose to Martinez, or Mayweather, but I think he has a good shot at everyone else.
hi dru nice list.... but let me give you list you forgot to mention like big bad jeff lacy with a record at that time of 21-0 with a large ko percentage who was given a brutal boxing lesson. and was lucky to get out of the ring alive and was never the same after joe took his IBF belt or what about mario veit with a 30-0 record who joe destroyed twice or what about mikkel kessler who was WBA and WBC champ with a record of 39-0 with a great KO record. so don't give me that bull about not fighting anyone or not having a chin dude you catch my drift dude. we can all have selective list's catch you later dude
I don't think I'd personally have LaMotta in a top 40 TBH but a good list otherwise. I'm really not sold on Alvarez though that's neither here nor there.
Always nice to see Tunney and Benny Leonard getting a mention.
Thanks for coming back Egyptian tomo,
big bad Jeff Lacy wasn't that big and bad. More on the bad side. The truth is that he was never THAT big of deal and Calzaghe (although not as great as promoted as far as the Greats are concerned) was the cream of the crop and an elite fighter. Of course he was supposed to toss Lacy a beating. Calzaghe just exposed him. Lacy was a rising star who did well but lost to every big name including a declining Jermaine Taylor. Mikkel Kessler is the only respected name you mentioned that battled other champions. But he beat Kessler on points and Andre Ward stopped him earlier than Calzaghe could.
Just so you know man, I respect your guy. Calzaghe is a great champion deserving of respect, I'm just not giving him a nod for a greatest of all time. Keep on coming back man.
Thanks for stopping in SGraveson,
Thanks for complimenting the list man. As for Jake LaMotta, keep in mind this isn't just a pound for pound. His cultural significance edged him out in front of a few others he might be up front on boxing prowess alone.
As for Alvarez---I feel we're in the era of over hyped sensations and there's a few boxing heart throbs, fan favorites, and name draws like Chavez, Jr. that they try to sell on us. Even the bona fide best coast by on their names these days. But I've learned you can't make a super star out of complete garbage. Even if you're fighting bums or fighters who are respectable but not great---if you're having action packed wars with them, you're probably not that good. But if you're knocking them out and stopping them early like you're supposed to---you can at least win the benefit of the doubt in my book. He's 21 and putting people on the floor. Stylistically he isn't that pretty or legendary, but I think he's proven he might be one of those tough aggressive fighters who might be good and may take a few big names down. We'll see.
Thanks again for stopping in.
Joe calzaghe is a fukn bum!!!!
Maywether?
now dru your telling me your the only yank who thought calzaghe would beat lacy your one of a kind dru a true mystic . next you will be telling me peterson beat khan fair and square then again you could take off your blinkers before replying... ps have a nice christmas dru and keep up the good work as your replies allways put a smile on my face
Thanks for stopping by Yo. Wouldn't say Calzaghe's a bum, but definitely no GOAT. Thanks for stopping by.
Thanks for stopping by also Scoosh. Mayweather is the best pound for pound of this era. I think beating Pacquiao (as many think he will) would seal him in for at least consideration. Unfortunately as good as he is, no one seems to like him much. He's an undefeated fighter who truly justified being undefeated. He fought big names and outclassed everyone. He showed everyone he simply is just a better boxer than most and deserves his respect. He's still active and things may happen so we'll see.
IM FROM WALES AND JOE CALZAGHE IS WAY OVERRATED!!!! GOOD EUROPEAN CHAMO THATS AS FAR AS IT GOES!!!!NOT WORLD CLASS OR EVEN NEAR THAT LEVEL IF WAS A TRUE CHAMP HE WOULD HAVE STUCK AROUND FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER THREE FIGHTS.IF HE FOUGHT A REMATCH WITH HOPKINS, TOOK ON FROCH AND THE LIKES OF ANDRE WARD OR CHAD DAWSON THEN FAIR ENOUGH HE WOULD HAVE GOT HIS RESPECT OR IF BEAT A PRIME JONES OR HOPKINS WHICH WOULD NEVER OF HAPPENED THEN MOST DEFINATE CALZAGHE SAID IN HIS BIOGRAPHY HIS FAVOURITE FIGHTER IS ROY JONES JR BUT WOULD NOT EVER FIGHT HIM AS HES WASHED UP AND FINISHED!THEN CALZAGHE DECIDES FOR HIS FINAL BOUT TO TAKE ON THE LEGENDARY JONES IN MADISON SQUARE GARDENS TO LOOK GOOD FOR HIM, WITH SUCH A BIG VENUE AND SUCH A BIG NAME BUT WHY WHEN SAID JONES WAS FINISHED HE IS A HYPOCRIT!JONES CALLED CALZAGHE OUT AFTER HE FINISHED CLINTON WOODS IN 2002 SO WHY DIDN'T JOE TAKE THE FIGHT???EVEN NIGEL BENN SAID THE ONLY MAN HE NEVER FOUGHT AND SAID HE RECKONED WOULD HAVE GIVE HIM BIG PROBLEMS WAS ROY JONES JR SO THAT SAYS IT ALL!!!!JONES IS BEST POUND 4 POUND EVER NO MAN HAD SPEED OR REFLEXES LIKE HIM AND TO DO WHAT HE HAS ACCOMPLISHED AND NO ONE WILL WITH OUT A DOUBT IN TOP 5 BEST FIGHTERS NEXT TO ALI,LEONARD,TYSON AND FRAISER.....
Hey Egyptian tomo. I look forward to your contributions as well. However, I find it very interesting that you find me to be the mystic, or humorous one lol. Especially considering you would be pretty hard pressed to find any analyst or an official boxing site to concur with your opinion and post Joe Calzaghe in any top 20 of all time.
The problem here is that you’re a little too strongly committed to your own perspective and you’re not doing a very good job at grasping the reality of the situation or Joe Calzaghe---so here goes and let’s try this again:
Calzaghe in a nutshell beat a list of no names, had 1 belt for most his career, stayed in England, chose not to mix it up with other champions, and as champ---chose not to acclimate himself to the world’s biggest boxing stage for years. Realizing his reign was a lackluster front and ticket draw, he decided to finally do some travelling and throw some names under his belt for his legacy sake---and with an eventual retirement on his mind. So let’s explore what your GOAT did during his legacy tour:
Calzaghe finally came over and beat Bernard Hopkins, umm….but he did the exact same thing Jermaine Taylor did, and Taylor is no GOAT. Like Calzaghe, Taylor fought an old Bhop in a super close fight, basically a tie, and was awarded the win. Nothing huge here. He also beat Kessler----umm…but so did Andre Ward, just way more convincingly. Kessler went the distance with Calzaghe, but Andre Ward closed his eye and shut Kessler out early. Calzaghe also beat a washed up Roy Jones, but Jones went the distance and even knocked Calzaghe to the floor. Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver were able to knock (the old Jones) out. And by the way, that same old washed up Jones was still able to toss your Jeff Lacy a beating too, the guy you keep putting as a feather in Calzaghe’s cap.
So basically everything Calzaghe has done that you find pretty cool, other elite fighters have done too, but just did it a lot better. Only difference is Calzaghe skated by, prancing around in England and kept himself undefeated for years before he did it.
Many elite level boxers could have taken the Calzaghe route and this is nothing new.. For example, If Canelo Alvarez and Julio Chavez. Jr continue to do exactly what they’re doing for the next 10 years, winning fights while holding championship belts---penetrating the psyche of boxing’s elite with fanfare, and then finally edge out a few big names in their last few years by picking fights at the right time----fans like yourself are duped into believing the hype, rating them incorrectly and consider them greats. Again, he is good and not every fighter is good enough to pull that off, but many elite, top ranked fan favorites can.
And that my friend is the reality in a nutshell. You insist on Calzaghe based on nothing. He hasn’t done anything. He stayed out of harm’s way for most his career, and then managed to edge out the biggest names he’s fought at opportunistic times---on points. Yawn….Worthy of respect yes, but he simply isn’t a candidate for a GOAT. Let’s wake up from your perspective already.
But hey, in the end you have your opinion and I have mine. if nothing else we can always agree to disagree.
Have a happy holidays man and keep coming back.
Very nice list!
But I don't understand why Jones made the list. He did hold seven belts at once, but half were second-rate organization ones.
I also don't acknowledge him as a Middleweight champion winning the Heavyweight championship. He beat John Ruiz. Ruiz is ultimatly an average fighter. He shouldn't have even been champion. He only had the WBA belt because Lennox Lewis didn't see him worth fighting. And he was right. Ruiz had beaten nobody and only became a contender because of an unknown trick Don King was trying to pull.
Lewis didn't fall for it and didn't fight Ruiz. So Ruiz was a Paper Champion.
Had Jones fought and beat Lewis, he'd be a legend. But he didn't.
Let's save the honor of "First Middleweight Champion in over 100 years to become a Heavyweight Champion" for someone who deserves it, shall we? One belt is pretty meaningless when the lineal one is unvacant anyway.
I also don't see the olypmics inncident as meaningful. Olympic boxing is a corrupt organization that has been robbing people since it began. They should have compensated Holyfield with a thropy too.
"the awesome Joe Calzaghe"
Are you being sarcastic? Lol.
And then there's the whole steroid issue. That's the main reason why Jones isn't an all time great. When an athlete is positive for steroids, you have got to wonder... Would they have done as much without the steroids?
"Jones still beats the best of them and is still not retired with more fights on deck."
Yeah, winning the UBO Intercontinental Crusierweight title is a huge accomplishment. Heh.
Also, it's almost a boxing crime to rank Ray Leonard higher than Marvin Hagler. Leonard ducked fighting Hagler four times. He even announced to an entire crowd the fight wouldn't happen.
It wasn't until Hagler was talking about how he's starting to bruise easier and the sport was getting hard for him that Leonard admitted to thinking, "This would be the perfect time to fight him."
I love Leonard, he's probably one of the best combo-punchers of all time and no one has ever moved around the ring with as much grace as he did.
But he was too picky about his fights. That's why Hagler and Duran are usually ranked higher, they would fight anyone.
But I really like your 1-20 list. You have hit pretty much every good reason why these fighters should be here. I like how you mentioned people most wouldn't consider, like Tyson and De La Hoya.
Do you think Greb, Langford and Monzon should be on this list?
Thank you for coming by too RYDER MC and of course I agree with you. He was good, but mostly a hype show. And thank you for reminding me about Calzaghe ducking Jones when Jones wanted to fight him in 2002. He suddenly changed his mind and fought him in 2009 after Jones had a string of losses. That was a punk move.
Thanks again for coming by
Hey GOAT10392,
Thanks a lot for stopping by, and I appreciate you complimenting the choices very much. That’s always great to hear from another boxing fan.
As for Jones winning the heavyweight championship-----At various times in his career Ruiz won the WBC, NABF, AND the WBA heavyweight titles, and he beat Evander Holyfield in 1 fight, tied him in another. Ruiz isn’t a legend, but he isn’t a clown either. No, Ruiz is no Lennox Lewis, but in Ruiz, Roy Jones fought a reigning heavyweight champion and won the belt. Done. You’re making your own rule that he needed to beat some hall of fame legend heavyweight in order to validate his distinction. Any time someone accomplishes an unprecedented feat, someone comes along and tries to raise bar. He won a heavyweight championship and that's all there is to it.Jones’s career is full of unprecedented fun facts in addition to being middleweight, lightweight, and heavyweight champ, being the athlete for which they changed Olympic scoring, and for being the only athlete in history to participate in 2 sports events in the same day that I’ve added above. He played a sponsored basketball game that afternoon and knocked out future world champion Eric Lucas by evening. And now he’s becoming a fixture calling the HBO fights with Harold Letterman and gang, and he’s excellent at it with exceptional analyses and play by play.
Now for the Jones steroid business: “Roy Jones tested positive for steroids” is an old media trick my friend. There is no such drug called “steroids”. Nor can you test positive for anything called “steroids”. What was he on exactly and how much of it was in his system? Was he on Winstrol, Testosterone Cyp, dianobol, EPO? I don’t believe that was ever clarified. And why did it not explode into a huge scandal? Jones claimed he was taking an over the counter product, one of several legal performance products that could make someone come up positive for the test he took, and his opponent Richard Hall had about 5-6 times over the acceptable amount in the system that Jones had. Regardless and consequently, Jones had to submit to another test after the fight, and then had more rigorous testing in his next few fights that all came up negative. He was resolutely clean for those fights and Jones fought as superior and on par as always. That issue has been over and done. You have no case against him with the steroid thing because it doesn’t exist. If that’s your main reason for not considering Jones as a GOAT then that wouldn’t be enough to hold weight or sustain your point. Besides, Jones was king because of his superior boxing skill and boxing IQ, steroids is an edge, but it can’t give you skill.
Do yourself a favor and pick your battles wisely. You’re not going to do too well trying to reduce the likes of Roy Jones, Jr. wherever you place him in your head. Roy Jones was the best Light Heavyweight of the era—period and I’d just leave that alone. He used to win every fight and toy around with his competition---there was no one else on his level. Yes he’s old now, lost some steam, speed, athleticism----and consequently has less of a chin. And if he keeps fighting he may eventually lose to more guys he’d never have lost to in the past like Calzaghe, but no one can make him stop but him---but he’ll still remain above the vast majority of the field of elite fighters. Past his prime in more recent fights he still breezed through Felix Trinidad and Jeff Lacy, and yes he also just won the UBO Cruiserweight title. Another belt in another weight class yet again. You mock him for it without realizing these are still feats normal fighters can’t keep doing when their “done” and over the hill----in addition to the fact that it’s making history. You can make a case against a guy for snatching an easy, wide open belt in a new weight class, but you have no case when somehow that same guy keeps doing it all career long and in different divisions. Hell maybe, just maybe, he might actually pretty good?
As for Hagler vs. Leonard, you have to admit Leonard was always the bigger poster boy star in the sport---besides the fact that they did fight and Leonard won. Every true boxing fan loves Hagler. He’s a fighter and he fought everyone because he had to. That’s how he was going to get his respect----he had to take it. No one was doing him any favors. Leonard however was a star and also a business man---and you earn the most with the least amount of risk for as long as possible. He had that option and Hagler didn’t as much. But give him his due. Leonard won an Olympic Gold on the best US Olympic team, made Duran quit and beat Hearns AND Hagler. He’s good where he is. Love Hagler but there’s no way I’d ever place him above Leonard.
Anyway to answer you’re question, I think Greb, Langford and Monzon definitely should be on the list but just not in my top 20 spot. Maybe top 30. I considered a lot of other variables including popularity and cultural significance which is why they wouldn’t crack a top 20 and guys like Dela Hoya and Lamotta would.
Anyway, you covered a lot and I hope I responded to all your points. Thanks again for your overall agreement with list though man. Come back anytime.
De la Hoya and not Hagler???? Sure Oscar is a better businessman. With that, put Foreman behind Bill Gates
Hey there Buckeye,
Thanks for coming to the page.Again though, you're another disregarding the criteria completely: ".....popularity, competition they faced, showmanship, and cultural significance in their era". This isn't just a pound for pound list, nor do I believe in typical pound for pound lists because they're really just a matter of a opinion and perspective anyway. There were many incredible fighters throughout boxing history, but some stood out in their respective eras in and out of the ring, truly making them great and influential to the sport.
In addition to being an internationally celebrated world champion multiple times, Dela Hoya also broke pay per view records---"IN BOXING", became the owner of some of the top "BOXING" magazines out there. And he also promotes some of the biggest fights in the game through Golden Boy Productions ---"IN BOXING". It seems you may be missing the point entirely that Dela Hoya is a bigger figure internationally, and more culturally significant to the sport and you're resting your argument solely on your opinion of Hagler being a better fighter.
So does Mr. Bill Gates rank high on an all time "COMPUTER SOFTWARE" tycoon list, or what have you? You bet---if we were talking "COMPUTER SOFTWARE". Does additional fame, fortune, cultural significance and notoriety matter for a "BOXER" on this "greatest boxers of all time" list??? Pretty much a no brain-er there.
Thanks for stopping in.
Awesome list! especially the top 10 they cant be argued. i like how u have Willie Pep in there. I think he and Benny Leonard would be recognized more if ordinary fans gave a damn about those weight divisions. i think even u would rank Armstrong higher if he was a heavyweight and i think Robinson would make #1 on more lists if he was. too bad theres no depth in the heavyweight division anymore:(
oh and what about Jersey Joe Walcott? did he lose too much? i wasnt around back then but i thought he was pretty imortant
no drew he beat all you yanks had to offer on his terms not on yours you know just like your roy jones would not fight outside u.s.a would he.also if i am not mistaken did not ring give joe the the best in division belt or dont they know what they are on with either.anyway what about the khan fight and the bad decision by them cheating yanks... all the best dru
i think greb fought most of his career blind in one eye so he maybe best pfp one eyed fighter ever. mayweather as great as he is isnt really trying to impress anyone these days except maybe his girlfriends. Id really like to see him fight all the top fighters now before he has excuses. great fighters well.. they fight..often and they dont cherry pick. there are several fights he should make one being martinez and pacman to start with. he could have trouble if he gets a ref like the one in the khan fight. i think the ref decided that fight in the last round. with 2 points off i had it a draw. even ali would be in trouble with a ref like that. I think i know how pacman can beat mayweather. he has to use his head not to butt with but tactics wise. he has to mix up his attack. make mayweather come to him one round then become very aggressive the next. he has to act like he is hurt when he gets hit and become completely unpredictable for mayweather to gauge and time. boring mayweather then rushing him. when he gets into good position he has to be willing to trade with him..he has to risk getting knocked out and he has to throw combos of 4 or 5 punches at a time. if he doesnt do this then he has to get lucky somehow because i dont think he can out box mayweather. sugar shane clocked him good and if pacman can land like that mayweather is in for long night. whats a calzaghe? an italian pizza roll?
Thanks for coming by and thanks a lot for the compliment project pat. I agree with a lot of what you said but also be aware of the criteria for this list. The fact that these guys weren't heavyweights is sort of related, but not necessarily. It's just that unlike nowadays, back then heavyweights were more glorified and consequently they ended up being the most famous and legendary. But Sugar Ray Robinson was huge and he was fine where he was. Same for the other guys I think. Part of Armstrong's appeal was dominating multiple weight divisions which was more of an achievement back then. And Pep's fight's were super fast paced which probably wouldn't be the case as a big boy.
Thanks again for coming by!
Walcott is good and he was important, famous for his rivalries with Ezzard Charles and Marciano. But yes he did eat a lot of losses. Good fighter not legendary though in my book. Thanks for coming by
Robinson is righfully rated #1 on most lists due to his outstanding record alone. as an amature he was unrivaled and i do believe unbeatable. if you add up his amature record and his first like 40 pro bouts he has a winning streak of well over a hundred fights. then he went undefeated for another long run after Lamotta defeat. He was as close to unbeatable as they come taking on the best.
are you mutton jeff or stevie wonder. this goats still waiting....
Hey egyptian tomo,
To be completely honest with you I wasn’t sure you even wanted a response because you went for an irrational banter without a logical defense so I just let it ride. I see now I left you hanging and I’m sorry about that, also since you asked a direct question about the Khan fight. My apologies man.
But I do have to hold you to being a little irrational and I think you gave up on trying to make solid points saying “he beat all you yanks” on his terms and such. umm...Calzaghe didn't fight anyone relevant in the US. And those he did fight, he didn't when he should have.…“all you yanks” would have to include Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson, Andre Ward----and he didn’t go anywhere near those guys. He ducked Jones too when Jones was King but finally and mysteriously took a fight with him after Jones started getting knocked out and slow to fool guys like you. It’s good for his health and his illusion of greatness that he didn’t.
“All you yanks” ISN'T Reality Show contender Peter Manfredo, a passed around Jeff Lacy that the US spit out of contention, and an old Roy Jones after he’s been knocked out for the 1st few times in his career---a few times in a row.
And Roy Jones did call the shots in his fights, but fought the best in his country and out. Jones fought BHop and James Toney when they were young and relevant. Calzaghe didn’t even fight Carl Froch in his backyard who all but begged him. He didn't ask to fight Lucian Bute, Tarver or anyone that would've turned the heads of analysts. His most notable fights in his life is winning a close one with Kessler on points (Kessler who wasn’t even a finalist in the Super 6), and being awarded the victory in an obvious draw with an old BHop. This conversation has already been shut down and dismissed a million times over.
I will credit to the Calzaghe camp as far as management goes at having one of the smoothest and well strategized teams. Dodging and keeping the hard fights to a minimum, then fighting the old legends when he clearly had the edge and they were way past prime. Avoided the highest risks, protected his legacy, and retired undefeated (as if he was really that good to retire unstoppable and unchallenged by anyone in the world----please.) This guy really believes he’s on Sugar Ray Robinson status and was able to retire because he did it all and no one in his era was able to stop “The Great Calzaghe”. Too funny, and not even close.
Also so you should stop polarizing. It’s a bad habit and it could stunt your perspective. Any sport that has money and/or nationalism in it is subject to be corrupt. ALL sports from ALL nations. Sure the Khan fight was debatable, but wasn’t a “cheating yank” issue. Sometimes a ref can be too overzealous and make himself too much of factor (which could’ve been the case in this fight), as the ref became unusually obsessed with his own issue (pushing). Also whenever there is a heavy favorite as Khan was, betting entities always benefit from the favorite losing. Basically you really never know so don’t insist claims.
And although Khan should’ve won, it still would’ve been narrow and by split decision. Khan was leading, but he got beaten up on the inside with each round---and he ran. It was the furthest thing from a runaway victory as both men took beatings and controlled rounds. With such a dominant 1st round and a better display of punching activity, it still should’ve leaned Khan’s way though. Regardless, the ref took points and once the calls are made, you have to respect the deductions. In a close fight it can change the outcome. Khan’s redemption is to go for a shutout in the rematch. Don’t allow Peterson to regain confidence or his footing and close the show. That’s all there is too it and what’s done is done.
Sorry for the delay and keep coming back.
Take care
Hey gconeyhiden,
I'd say Sam Langford is the best blind pound for pound. He was still winning fights by Knock out practically blind, and eventually had to stop fighting when he was totally blind.
As for the Khan fight referee; I can't stand ref's like the one in the Khan fight, refs who make themselves too much of a factor. They're there to keep order and make the fight run smoothly, not constantly interrupt, insert their will and change fight results. Khan WAS pushing alot, which was his defense against Peterson's constant lunging forward to fight close on the inside. So the ref was right in principle, but I don't think anyone agreed with the point deductions. Some guys just aren't that intelligent and should know to at least provide and another CLEAR and LAST warning when a fight is close like that. Oh well, the rematch is on.
As for Mayweather vs Pacquiao---in order for Pacman to beat Mayweather, he really has to go for broke in a "Rocky" moment. Strategizing like that would be too dangerous. He can't out-think Mayweather, and he can't outbox him. He has to out work him and keep the pressure on. The fight can end in decision if neither get put down, so he has to stay busy and win rounds with activity. That's it. Trying to out-think Mayweather will make him run out of rounds to make up or land him on his back. Pacquiao isn't an Ali stategist, you have to fight your fight. With Pacquiao its his speed, ability to move angles and keep the pressure coming.
I do agree with you that he has to be willing to trade and risk being knocked out. He has to go for broke. Laying back and trying to box with him will cost him the fight.
As for Calzaghe, what can I say that hasn't already been said man lol. Most see him for what he is. He is a good fighter who chose the easy route to be thought of as great.
Thanks for coming around again.
Hey gconeyhiden,
Robinson is still considered the best and I agree. He is the best combination and middle ground of the old world of boxing and the new. He has the old school grit, toughness and chin of the old boxing and the skill, finesse and ability of the new. Pound for pound he definitely is still the best.
ALL THE GREATEST FIGHTERS IN THE WORLD ARE EITHER HISPANIC OR AFRICAN AMERICAN, AT 1ST YOU HAD THE JEWS N THE ITALIANS, N THEN THE BLACKS N THE HISPANICS BLEW THEM OUT OF EXISTANCE, LETS ALL BE HONEST DRU, WHITES CANT BOX FOR REAL TALK!!! WORD!! THE GREAT UNDEAFEATED OF MODERN TINES IS CALZAGHE N HE JUST SLAPS , JUST SO YOU KNOW IM MIXED RACE AFRICAN AMERICAN ND PUERTO RICAN
Joe Calzaghe should of been on the list as well as Hearns.
why no mention of the welter middle and lightheavy weight title holder harry greb
i don't agree with the selection u made.... how about MANNY PACQIAO,,,, where do he belong......???????
Remember he already fought and oveRPOWERED greatest fighters one of them is OSCAR DELA HOYA.....
What about John L Sullivan
Foreman, LaMotta, and Frazier (which is the correct spelling of his name) have no business in a top 20 P4P list.
De la Hoya's inclusion is downright comical. He's top 100 at best.
muhamad ali
dru last time on this subject man you have a poll on your 21 - 30 list asking is calzagi a leggend or not. it seems up to today the public think he is. so now are you going to tell me they are wrong and you are right because if you do it will just go to prove that you have a head as big as a house. i hope not drew as it would show that you can be wrong now and again .after all drew no man is perfect i know that hurts drew but that is true . all the best bruv
How can anybody have Duran ahead of Leonard when Sugar Ray made Roberto say "No mas" I wonder.
Hey power_of_the_black_seed, who has dominated the heavyweight scene lately?
ali is the greatest ever i seen i like ali
Of all the boxing greats, i think Manny Pacquiao should be included in the list.Look, the only boxer in the world to attained an eight (8)different divisions world titles.Mayweather i think should prove himself that he will be also included in the list of boxing greats. Mayweather undefeated record still very very lacking to consider in the list of greats.A great fighter never refused, never selected to fight any opponent. Mayweather is far far behind compare to Rocky Marciano if undefeated record in boxing is concerned.
JOHN L SULLIVAN fought over 3oo fights? Where is he? He fought bare knuckle and gloves
jandee Level 5 Commenter 12 months ago
Hello Dru,
Just thought I would tell you that my grandson and Husband have just -5 minutes ago- returned from meeting and having photo taken with Joe Frazier at Zacs ,Grandson, aged 11,Golden Gloves boxing club in Liverpool.
best from jandee